H
halibuthitman
Mad dog said:
+1Save the native Umpqua steel
+1
brandon4455
i think you all made it clear now that you like to bonk wild steelhead,all you have to do is not sign the petition... it's that simple.
M
Mad dog
brandon4455 said:
I've Never bonked a wild steelhead Brandon!
I will however be signing a different petition!!! :clap:
Your judgements on things are biased and make you look rather ignorant sometimes! :think: Sorry!
B
bigsteel
yea,but then people can't thump there chests and act like they know what there talking aboutbrandon4455 said:
R
rippin fish lips
brandon4455 said:
Nope, never have bonked a wild steelhead because i have yet had the chance to catch one. And i KNOW FOR A FACT i will not bonk a wild steelhead, unless its gushing blood when i land it.
Now before i say this, keep in mind that i think you are a cool dude and i respect you for the way you look at our native populations, and i am not trying to bash on you but i found this to be somewhat true.
"Your judgements on things are biased and make you look rather ignorant sometimes! Sorry!"
I don't fish this river, but i know there is plenty of wild steelhead in there. I would sign the petition if i really thought the fishery needed to be protected. More winters are returning there each year.
brandon4455
i don't care how ignorant standing up for wild fish makes me look and i will tell you all that right now. i will do it until the day i die and i will educate our future generations as well so our wild fish and all of our fisheries in general have any chance at making it in the future.
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DYJ
Standing up for wild fish doesn't make you sound ignorant.... I think it's more or less the way you present your opinions and then judgin people for their opinions or morals, when they differ from yours, that makes you sound ignorant.
Then using your 'jump to conclusions mat' to assume we all like to kill natives...
Then using your 'jump to conclusions mat' to assume we all like to kill natives...
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ChezJfrey
brandon4455 said:
Ah, but that is not what people are doing...they are not making the accusation because you stand up for wild fish. In fact, that statement is the same sort of logical fallacy made when presuming that anyone opposed to the petition, or debating against your view wanted to bonk natives; one can still be opposed to the petition and opposed to killing native fish. Halibut Hitman mentioned that the rule change might be good management, but would not partake in native harvest and mad dog holds a similar view.
Also, rejecting the study done to compare years allowing harvest vs. non-harvest years, showing apparent non-effect on escapement and thus supporting the opposing argument, merely because it's contrary to your belief system, might have also added to the accusation. I think the study looks valid and should be accepted as such; you could merely state it has merit, the new rule might have no ill-effect on native fish population, but you are just against the idea based on personal preference.
However, getting others to buy-in to your personal belief system is sometimes more difficult than a side that is using a fact-based argument with numbers and supporting evidence to make their point...just depends on the desires/fears of the 'moral majority' as sometimes the case is just the opposite and hard fact is ignored.
Oh, and if you're OK with killing hatchery fish, you might have to resolve that pesky moral dilemma of why one life is more important than another...and I might suggest a better one than, "because the native fish are beautiful." Good luck!
brandon4455
i didn't reject any studies,don't recall saying that in any of my posts at all...
the thing that really gets on my nerves is you all think this is just about my personal beliefs.. not even close.
you think im the only one that thinks harvesting wild steelhead is wrong???? think again
keep the insults coming!!!!!
the thing that really gets on my nerves is you all think this is just about my personal beliefs.. not even close.
you think im the only one that thinks harvesting wild steelhead is wrong???? think again
keep the insults coming!!!!!
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joem
if you support wild fish, get rid of steelhead on the mckenzie(not trying to bring up off subject things). if i catch a wild fish and its leagle and i want to keep it im going to keep it and i wont be bonking it i will be sliceing the gills. so instead of thinking about a bonk to the head think of a knife into the gills and blood running down the side. your views are very biased and you only look at what you want to look at, ya wild fish are good to have but if you want things to be nattural back to how they were i think i should be able to get naked and go net them. and your fishing line shoul be outlawed cause it aint natural. if you cared about wild fish you wouldnt fish for them. its simple as that. wild fish are the same fish as hatchery fish just they were born in the river and have a fin on them thats the only difference and its not that big of one.
brandon4455
hatchery fish are the same as wild fish? and you are wondering why i called you a retard?????
the only thing i see in your post is what you have already seen posted in the thread and put it in your own.
the only thing i see in your post is what you have already seen posted in the thread and put it in your own.
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bigsteel
Brandon,dont waste your time with these people.
brandon4455
yeah im done... they can all kiss my arse. it's obviousy that many of you don't agree with me,and im not asking you to but a lot of people have taken my posts the wrong way and have put words in my mouth.
ill take my "expreme biased beliefs" elsewhere id rather be out fishing then this anyways.
ill take my "expreme biased beliefs" elsewhere id rather be out fishing then this anyways.
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ChezJfrey
brandon4455 said:i didn't reject any studies,don't recall saying that in any of my posts at all...
the thing that really gets on my nerves is you all think this is just about my personal beliefs.. not even close.
you think im the only one that thinks harvesting wild steelhead is wrong???? think again
keep the insults coming!!!!!
What insults did I throw?
I inferred the study rejection where after presented the data that native populations weren't significantly affected, you still state, "...and i will educate our future generations as well so our wild fish and all of our fisheries in general have any chance at making it in the future." This leads me to believe you reject the validity of said study.
As for the 'personal belief' part, reread this: "...thinks harvesting wild steelhead is wrong..." Now, tell me which part of 'thinks is wrong' is not a personal belief?
C
ChezJfrey
brandon4455 said:
But the thing is, for joem, hatchery fish can be the same as wild fish; it could be argued successfully that on many levels, they are. And just because they aren't the same to you, doesn't make him wrong. I think that's a facet of situational judgment that you need to recognize and acknowledge.
M
Modest_Man
Let me just say that I have never killed a wild steelhead, and had I the legal opportunity to harvest a wild steelhead, I would not. I've also just spent a bit over $10,000 of savings on a Fisheries and Wildlife degree so that I can help our wild salmon and steelhead populations recover, and am now working with OSU doing fisheries research on the Willamette.
With that being said, humanity manages fish populations from a harvest standpoint. If tomorrow all the native runs rebounded, what do you think would happen? They would all open to harvest. For the next 30 years I'll be out there working toward better runs of our wild fish so that we can eliminate hatchery fish completely and return to harvesting wild fish. The Umpqua is the river nearest that goal today.
With that being said, humanity manages fish populations from a harvest standpoint. If tomorrow all the native runs rebounded, what do you think would happen? They would all open to harvest. For the next 30 years I'll be out there working toward better runs of our wild fish so that we can eliminate hatchery fish completely and return to harvesting wild fish. The Umpqua is the river nearest that goal today.
H
hcole
brandon4455 said:
If it isn't about your personal beliefs then can you explain what it is about then? Is there any point where you'd ever feel a wild harvest is acceptable?
R
rippin fish lips
DYJ said:
Bingo!
Troutski
Please lets try to be civil on this thread, remember everyone has a right to an opinion - if you won't allow them theirs why should yours be allowed.
Chuck
Chuck
M
Mad dog
brandon4455 said:i didn't reject any studies,don't recall saying that in any of my posts at all...
the thing that really gets on my nerves is you all think this is just about my personal beliefs.. not even close.
you think im the only one that thinks harvesting wild steelhead is wrong???? think again
keep the insults coming!!!!!
Sorry Brandon,
Didn't mean to insult you, apparently none of us know what your personal beliefs are!
A couple of simple facts though; year in and year out the Umpqua has sustainable population of 30,000-40,000 wild steelhead, the ODFW will even boast about how healthy the populations are....they outnumber the hatchery fish in the system 10 to 1 on any given year! Umpqua broodstock are collected at Winchester dam from native Umpqua fish...not hatchery clones from some other system! Pretty quality!!!
There are bad things happening with the steelhead every year on the river....not enough law enforcement to cover it all! There is a lot of waste going on regardless of the catch and release law, a lot of illegal activities, poor fish handling and so on. Just like the fish that HHM had to kill awhile back, it happens, especially when boats are out there releasing up to 20 or more steelhead/day....What a waste not culling out the bleeders and the fish that won't make it! I say let the poachers take home their 5 wild fish/year, there are doing it anyway right now! Hell, a lot of those idiots probably can't catch 5 in a season anyway!
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