Releasing downhill runners

[Fishnbuck]

I was reading a very nice fishing report by an individual who released a fine specimen. A few members commended the release because it was believed to be a downhill running fish (did it's job, now returning to sea). I do not wish to start a catch and release debate, so if you want to argue the merits of C&R in general, please start your own thread, or find and old one to revive, I am sure there are plenty in the archives.

My question is, what benefit is there to releasing a downhill fish versus an uphill fish? The positive remarks specified that the release was "good" because it was a downhill runner (or believed to be). It seems to me, if an angler chooses to retain his/her catch (again, not the topic) it would be most beneficial to retain a fish that has dropped off their population payload, vice keeping one full of unborn smolt bits.

I am not passing judgment, nor am I asking for others to judge. I am curious, and would like to hear opinions, and hopefully someone will also supply scientific data if available.

Thank you for reading my post, let the debate begin

 

[bubs]

I too am interested to hear others' opinions on this. A lot of it depends on the specific situation at hand, but to simplify I'd say that when someone catches a fat fresh fish that is retainable, the prospect of that yummy meat to them outweighs the fact that the fish hasn't spawned yet (and that you're removing a "biter" from the gene pool). With downrunners, their meat is much less and often not great quality so the thought is, why not give them the chance to run again another year? And leave the biter in the gene pool.

Again, depends on the situation though...someone like me who does a lot of bushwhacking and other work to get few fish on the few trips I can afford, am more prone to keep fish that I might pass up if I were one of the guys nailing fish left & right all winter from a boat (haha not bitter or anything....)

 

[jamisonace]

I would answer the ? With a ? Why keep a post spawn fish? Meat quality is poor. No eggs.

 

[plumbertom]

I won't pretend that I know what I'm talking about but from what I've read, steelhead can survive spawning to return to the sea and come back again to spawn a second season.
Also it would seem that the second return fish would be much larger on it's second run.
Now this seems to me to valuable trait that releasing "Downhill runners" would promote.
Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[hobster]

^^^ Pretty much says it all. The meat on downrunners can be white or pale looking even if the fish is bright (especially in hens). They put all of their energy into the eggs and spawning once in the river so they become skinny and the meat becomes low quality. Plus i'd prefer a fish full of eggs, it's free bait to catch the next one!
Steelhead can spawn more than once so if they have made it that far into their journey you should let them go so they will come back next year bigger and fatter than ever. To me it's not worth killing a fish unless the meat is quality. They are such incredible animals in the first place and have such a small precentage of returning after their long voyage it's worh letting them go to give them a fighting chance of returning.
Also, most of my local rivers have mostly hatcheries (steelhead) , and i don't keep any natives even if the regs allow. Just my choice.

 

[bubs]

I would answer the ? With a ? Why keep a post spawn fish? Meat quality is poor. No eggs.

I've never kept a spawned out fish (was just sort of thinking it through in my post above), and I don't plan to, but some possible reasons for others might be:

A) it's a steelhead that looks more or less freshly spawned and still has some meat and you figure it might smoke up OK, B) you suspect that for whatever reason your fighting or handling it might cause it to die anyway, C) because you have it out for all hatchery fish, D) you want to see for yourself what the meat quality is like in that particular fish because someone telling you on an online forum that it will suck isn't enough to satisfy your curiosity, or E) it's a huge monster spawned out steelhead and even though it looks sort of like a giant eel you want to take it home and show it off to yo mama.

 

[ChezJfrey]

With downrunners, their meat is much less and often not great quality so the thought is, why not give them the chance to run again another year? And leave the biter in the gene pool.

Both jamisonace and bubs have the typical answer; meat is often poor-flavored/mushy and it's nice to leave the more aggressive 'biters' in the gene pool if you're not going to eat the fish.

 

[hobster]

Wow those posts popped up while i was typing...........a lot of quick responses in a few minutes!

 

[ChezJfrey]

I've never kept a spawned out fish (was just sort of thinking it through in my post above), and I don't plan to, but some possible reasons for others might be:

A) it's a steelhead that looks more or less freshly spawned and still has some meat and you figure it might smoke up OK, B) you suspect that for whatever reason your fighting or handling it might cause it to die anyway, C) because you have it out for all hatchery fish, D) you want to see for yourself what the meat quality is like in that particular fish because someone telling you on an online forum that it will suck isn't enough to satisfy your curiosity, or E) it's a huge monster spawned out steelhead and even though it looks sort of like a giant eel you want to take it home and show it off to yo mama.

I think those are some fine theoretical answers. I especially like C, D, and E

But you definitely get an A grade for posting the possibilities.

 

[Fishnbuck]

bubs - thanks for the explanation. Originating from the San Diego area, I am unfamiliar with migratory/spawning fish, so was not aware of meat quality issue. Is downhill steel meat like that of a dark salmon then? :thumb:

j- You cannot answer a question with a question, however you can respond to a question with a question, and sometimes that will lead the original requester of information to draw their own conclusion. In this case that is not possible because the question you responded with is merely a reworded version of my question. In contrast, your statements of " Meat quality is poor. No eggs." were informative, and I thank you for them.

 

[Fishnbuck]

Plumb - Interesting point, seems reasonable.

I also like the "biter gene" theory.

 

[rogerdodger]

not trying to hijack the thread but I learned from my BIL that Washington recently made it mandatory to retain hatchery steelhead on many streams...

2015/2016 WA Regs book:
"Mandatory Hatchery Steelhead Retention - ...an additional measure was made to provide protection to fish stocks in streams where there is concern about hatchery and wild fish spawning together. This measure..requires that anglers keep the hatchery steelhead they catch. To encourage anglers to harvest more hatchery steelhead as the fish arrive back to natal streams/release sites, for many streams the daily limit increases from 2 to 3 hatchery steelhead.
For streams where this rule applies, you will see: Mandatory Hatchery Steelhead Retention directly below the water listing."

 

[Fishnbuck]

So, meat quality understood, and set aside. The harvesting of eggs was also listed. Do steelies produce bait quality eggs? I got the impression it was only the salmon.

 

[ChezJfrey]

Is downhill steel meat like that of a dark salmon then?

Salmon, since they are actually in their death throes while migrating, can deteriorate far worse than a steelhead. Steelhead are losing their fat stores, which fat adds the considerable and desirable flavor, but they are not dying; a downrunner often just has near zero fat stores left so they don't taste very good.

It depends on the particularities of the person too...my wife won't even eat a fresh winter steelhead because after I fed her that first summer, she could not revert; summers come in much earlier in their spawning cycle and thus loaded with much more flavor.

 

[BamaDan]

not trying to hijack the thread but I learned from my BIL that Washington recently made it mandatory to retain hatchery steelhead on many streams...

2015/2016 WA Regs book:
"Mandatory Hatchery Steelhead Retention - ...an additional measure was made to provide protection to fish stocks in streams where there is concern about hatchery and wild fish spawning together. This measure..requires that anglers keep the hatchery steelhead they catch. To encourage anglers to harvest more hatchery steelhead as the fish arrive back to natal streams/release sites, for many streams the daily limit increases from 2 to 3 hatchery steelhead.
For streams where this rule applies, you will see: Mandatory Hatchery Steelhead Retention directly below the water listing."

I work in fisheries policy and might have the unpopular opinion here, but there should be more mandatory hatchery retention, especially a hatchery downrunner. We are all aware that hatchery fish are generally weaker than native broodstock. A hatchery downrunner is one that didn't hit a fish trap as intended and spawned in the creek, thus proven to be diluting native stock. I feel a lot of the fisheries management community would agree that there's a strong case for removing that fish regardless of its food value.

However, since most systems allow C&R of hatchery fish, what you do with a downrunner is up to you. I'm definitely not going to get on anyone's case for releasing a mushy fish.

 

[rogerdodger]

I work in fisheries policy and might have the unpopular opinion here, but there should be more mandatory hatchery retention, especially a hatchery downrunner. We are all aware that hatchery fish are generally weaker than native broodstock. A hatchery downrunner is one that didn't hit a fish trap as intended and spawned in the creek, thus proven to be diluting native stock. I feel a lot of the fisheries management community would agree that there's a strong case for removing that fish regardless of its food value.

However, since most systems allow C&R of hatchery fish, what you do with a downrunner is up to you. I'm definitely not going to get on anyone's case for releasing a mushy fish.

I'm with [MENTION=13109]BamaDan[/MENTION] on this, I am normally going to tag any hatchery fish that I land. My experience with smoking a hatchery downrunner was just fine, nothing mushy or soft about the meat, just low on fat (flavor) and the brining+smoking+basting with sweet thai chili sauce took care of adding plenty of flavor....roger

 

[Fishnbuck]

Bama - Excellent point. It's like fish adultery, resulting is "hybridization". Which left unchecked, could result in diminished native gene pool, and ultimately weaker fish. While many fishermen may dislike not having a "select harvest" option, they could ultimately benefit more from a "big picture" views such as this. We have a tendency to narrow our focus on how it going to impact "me" and "my fishing" right now, not taking into account all of the other share holders in the industry, including the future generations of fisherman.

Again, new to the area, and these fisheries, I am not trying to instigate policy change, just drumming up discussion on "things that make me go hmmm?"

 

[Fishnbuck]

My boy landed one out of Faraday a few weeks back, and it is my understanding that those are "over quota" trapped fish from the hatchery. This particular one was a buck, (it still had milt). Would this be similar to the down-runner in question? It seems to me that it would be, because despite that fact it had not delivered the goods, it make it to the breeding grounds. I am curious if I can expect similar results if I harvest a down-runner in the future, if I treat like I did my boys fish below.

It filleted out nicely, with bright orange meat. I seasoned and baked the first fillet, and the second was smoked (2 hrs @ 180-200, then finished @ 350). Both methods turned out great, and my wife who doesn't care to eat fish, said she would eat it on a regular basis.

Also - Thanks again to the 2 older gentlemen (if you happen to be members here) for being kind enough to give my son the thrill of landing his first steelhead.

 

[BamaDan]

First off, good for you taking your boy fishing, and congrats on getting him into some steel. His first one is something that neither he nor you will ever forget.

Someone who's more educated about specific Clackamas system management policy might be able to clear this up, but I believe they take fish from the trap in McIver Park and truck them up to Faraday and even back downstream to give anglers another shot at them. If I'm wrong someone please correct me, but I would say your fish was not a downrunner if it cut good and had milt. It seems to be more likely an early winter or late summer run that returned to the Dog Creek trap and was planted in Faraday.
You probably won't ever have this experience with a true downrunner since this fish was most likely pre-spawn. I think every post-spawn buck I've ever seen has been pretty banged up and dark and they fight like hooking into an old dishrag.

P.S. Thanks for asking questions and trying to be a responsible angler.

 

[jamisonace]

Lots of good info here. Haven't seen anything to disagree with.

My opinion: If it's a mandatory retention thing, that fish is going straight to compost or becoming crab bait. Call me a food snob but I wouldn't feed my family a post spawn fish. Otherwise it's going back in the river to run the seal gauntlet a second time. The more adults in the system the better as far as I'm concerned.

It is true that steelhead brighten back up and look fresh on their way down so it can hard to tell before you cut it.