ODFW report...tagged coho.

B

bigfootfish

The last ODFW Fish & Game Report said something interesting:


ODFW staff continued to track radio-tagged coho by boat on the mainstem Willamette River above Willamette Falls over the past week. A 26-mile survey was completed from St. Paul downstream to Willamette Falls. Only 22 adult fish (of the 80 tagged) were re-located in the reach. Staff from The Confederated Tribe of the Grand Ronde confirmed that through Oct. 22, they have detected 47 radio-tagged fish at their respective fixed telemetry sites at various tributary mouths above the Falls. They reported that 2 coho have entered the Luckiamute, 13 entered the Tualatin, and 9 entered the Yamhill. With the recent rains and elevated stream flows, we anticipate the remaining tagged coho will soon be leaving the mainstem Willamette for tributary spawning habitat.

Anglers who catch a tagged coho are asked to release the fish unharmed and report the time and location and tag number to Tom Murtagh, district fish biologist, at 971-673-6044. Tagged fish may be identified by floy tags in the dorsal fin and or an antennae protruding through the mouth.

What about the Santiams? Calapooia? Marys River? The Long Tom? The MacKenzie? I want to know! Now!:shock::lol:

BFF
 
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masmith

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My guess is that almost all went to the Yamhill and Tualitin. From what I saw at the Yamhill there must have been thousands in there.
 
B

bigfootfish

More on tagged coho.

More on tagged coho.

I finally caught up with Steve Mamoyac, the ODFW District Fish Biologist. In my conversation with him yesterday, I asked him if the ODFW also planted receivers for those radio-tags further up the Willamette. Indeed they have, all the way up to the Middle Fork of the Willamette, in the mouths of every major trib. So I guess we wait and see. The results will be mentioned in the ODFW Fish & Game Report, which is updated every Wednesday, most of the time, at:

Here is a copy of an email from Steve that I received last December;

Hello Jim - Coho have never been planted in the Santiam basin. The majority of past stocking took place in the west half of the upper WIllamette basin (Coast Range tribs - Tualatin, Yamhill, etc.). Coho hatchery releases were actually phased out several years ago and yet the species has obviously "hung on" and then some as evidenced by the significant returns we've had in some years. Additionally, we routinely encounter juvenile coho during sampling for other species throughout the mid and lower Willamette basin tribs.

We do have some very limited spawning survey data for coho in the North Santiam. We also have some juvenile data, again limited. Because coho, though naturally produced, aren't native to the Willamette basin above the Falls we don't devote much in the way of our limited personnel resources to their monitoring. Wish we could do more as they certainly are making their presence known.

Have you fished for them n the North Santiam? If so, I'd really like to hear how you did and get your thoughts. As you may know the river is closed until Nov 1. We may consider opening it up during all or part of October next year as we're expecting an even larger run.

Thanks for your interest.


Steve Mamoyac
District Fish Biologist
South Willamette Watershed District
7118 NE Vandenberg Avenue
Corvallis, OR 97330
541-757-4186 (249)



BFF:think:
 
B

bigfootfish

Natives above the falls...

Natives above the falls...

Sorry there, Masmith. Coho have never been native above Willamette Falls. At least according to those who have spent millions of our fishing license bucks researching that subject.


BFF
 
M

masmith

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Yeah, only chinook and steelhead made it over, the coho just couldn't do it!
 
B

bigfootfish

Well, Mas, the ODFW repaired the fish ladder at W. Falls last September, that is 2008. NOW the Coho have an easier time of it. Why do you think they tagged the coho? The coho are a NEW fish species to the Middle and Upper Willamette River Basin. The ODFW does not know where all the coho are going, exactly. Hence the tags.

BFF
 
B

beaverfan

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Coho have been able to get above the falls since 1873 by way of the locks. It is by no means impossible that there weren't runs before that. Look how much they spread all throughout the Willamette valley when the majority of the stocking was in the Tualatin and Yamhill rivers. You don't think some strayed and went through the locks? So there have been Coho above the falls since on or around 1873 and most likely they were natives. So to me that means they're native.
 
B

bigfootfish

Native or not?

Native or not?

:)You sound like a lawyer, beaverfan. :lol:I think, and I may be wrong, that if due to manmade changes on the riverways a species can infiltrate and inhabit said waters, then that means those whom made it through the locks are not natives. If zero coho made it past W. Falls without help from humans, then......


BFF
 
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chris61182

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In the course of my reading it was the locks and the diversion of water for them which blocked the coho's passage. Prior to the locks, they were native above the falls but no one tracked or counted them. Then by the time we started caring enough to count and track we'd made the run above the falls extinct.
 
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masmith

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In the course of my reading it was the locks and the diversion of water for them which blocked the coho's passage. Prior to the locks, they were native above the falls but no one tracked or counted them. Then by the time we started caring enough to count and track we'd made the run above the falls extinct.

My understanding as well, before human involvement, they were native.
 
B

bigfootfish

Natives or not?

Natives or not?

chris61182,
Well, that sounds quite interesting. Imagine that, something the ODFW doesn't know about. What you said makes a great deal of sense. Can you name your reading sources? I'd like to read the same stuff you have. Your knowledge contradicts everything I know about the multi-million year history of the Santiam River Systems. I'm looking forward to your reading materials.

BFF
 
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masmith

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chris61182,
Well, that sounds quite interesting. Imagine that, something the ODFW doesn't know about. What you said makes a great deal of sense. Can you name your reading sources? I'd like to read the same stuff you have. Your knowledge contradicts everything I know about the multi-million year history of the Santiam River Systems. I'm looking forward to your reading materials.

BFF

If the indians drew pictures of coho on the walls of caves in the Yamhill valley area that would be a good clue.... :lol:
 
M

masmith

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When they tell you that Coho could not pass the falls historicly, they mean that they could not pass after the first dam at the falls was built. The first fish ladder was built 55 years after the first dam was built at Willamette falls.
Re: Uppr Willamette Coho



I have done some reasearch on this topic. Here are some of my findings.

In 1830, John Mclaughlin built various small timber crib dams at the top of Willamette falls to run water wheels for 5 decades. He also blasted a mill race into the rocks.

1842= the falls furnished power for a lumber mill.
1844=flour mill
1864= wollen mill
1867=paper mill

1852 they attempted to build a canal through the falls, but a flood destroyed hope of finishing it.

1873= The locks were completed.

1870= A letter to the Oregonian stated; Salmon are found in all waters of Oregon, except the upper Willamette, we need to build a fishway.

1885= The first fish ladder was completed.

It is interesting how many projects were completed that had the potential to influence fish passage prior to building the fish ladder, espicialy the crib dams in 1830 that would probably eliminate all fish passage during low water. It is also interesting to note when surveys about the fish populations were started. They were started 110 years after the crib dams were built!

1946= first year fish were counted at Willamette falls. Counts were only conducted for part of the Spring run.

1952= counted Spring Chinook, and Winter Steelhead from April 17-June 30.

During this time period the fish ladder was impassible during high and low water. During low water all of the water went through the mills, and even the Spring Chinook could not pass.

Prior to 1946 the lower portion of the Willamette river was blocked to migration for several months during Summer and Fall due to pollution.

Some notes about Coho in the upper Willamette.

Fall cr= Coho said to have spawned here many years ago. Appear to have been misidentified Spring Chinook.

Luckymute river= Apparently small runs existed before 1955. Supplemented by hatchery releases since 1959.

The first release of Coho in the Willamette above the falls was in 1954.

The first year that they counted Coho at Willamette falls was also 1954 when they counted over 300 Coho.

1971= improved fish ladder built.

My conclusion is that since no one went looking for Coho in the upper Willamette prior to 1954, and the falls had been negativly changed from its natural condition for 124 years prior to that, you could not have much if any data on the presence of Coho and Fall Chinook above the falls. To have any reliable data on the presence of those species you would have had to do surveys 124 years earlier. The crib dams were built before they opened the Oregon Trail, so there weren't a lot of people around to ask where the fall salmon runs went.
 
F

Fishtopher

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Who knows?! Not me!
As much as they like to think so, Ifish'ers dont write history.

And how can you tell a Coho from a Chinook on an Indian cave painting? Most people can't even do it in person with a fresh fish.
 
B

bigfootfish

Coho or not?

Coho or not?

Well. I've got to agree with fishtopher. Cave paintings were painted many times after celebrations or during celebrations. Usually the artists were very....unsober. Lots of medicines in the forms of abundant herbs raced through the veins of those artists. Party time after an abundant fish harvest.
We may really never know what the truth is concerning certain fish species up above W. Falls.
One definition of the word native in relation to fish is this: if those fish could infiltrate waters completely on their own without help from man, then that fish could be considered native. If a species of trout were transported and planted in a stream and they spawned and multiplied, those fish born in that stream would be considered natives to that stream but not a native species.
If has been great debating this issue. Heck, I'll just enjoy catching 'em!!!

BFF


I did start a cool thread though, didn't I?
 
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masmith

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Well. I've got to agree with fishtopher. Cave paintings were painted many times after celebrations or during celebrations. Usually the artists were very....unsober. Lots of medicines in the forms of abundant herbs raced through the veins of those artists. Party time after an abundant fish harvest.
We may really never know what the truth is concerning certain fish species up above W. Falls.
One definition of the word native in relation to fish is this: if those fish could infiltrate waters completely on their own without help from man, then that fish could be considered native. If a species of trout were transported and planted in a stream and they spawned and multiplied, those fish born in that stream would be considered natives to that stream but not a native species.
If has been great debating this issue. Heck, I'll just enjoy catching 'em!!!

BFF


I did start a cool thread though, didn't I?

Note the :lol: after the cave painting comment?

I do believe they were native. I just think that the assumption is that these resilient creatures inhabited all waters in northwest oregon at least before human involvement.The best way to prove that would be to find some sort of documentation of fish being caught by indians or some fo the original trappers out in the willamette valley pre 1800.
 
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chris61182

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As much as they like to think so, Ifish'ers dont write history.

You're correct, except Hawg boss is involved with ODFW, in particularly on the Santiam system.

As for my sources, I don't have any single one primary source, what Hawg Boss wrote is pretty much the only complete compilation of that information.
 
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