Long lining?

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K
Kodiak
Thuggin4Life said:
I was just saying maybe some of you guys who have been so opinionated on this topic may have had the thought cross your minds i never said i was a supporter or practicer of them. i sense a lot of hostility in this thread i thought this site was about sharing ideas and coming together with ideas and advice on the common ground we all share with fishing not negativity and hostility

for the most part it is. We however take pride as a group that would rather take a glowing hot ice pick in the eye before we would floss/longline/snag. We would opt out for dynamite if we were gonna break the rules. We will share fishin' holes, hookup for trips, and help each other become better fisherman. If we do make a mistake we apolgize, go before the grand inquisitor and beg for forgiveness. Anyway, Welcome to OFF. Please don't judge us based on this thread, it's just a very sore subject for those of us who work hard at refinig our skills to only have someone say that flossing is better.
 
T
Thuggin4Life
Dynamite lol. Far more effective than snagging. But on a more serious note i am more than willing to hook up with you guys and refine my fishing skills. Just Don't teach me how to long line. I have never used a leader more than like 3' except when flat lining and i want to keep my weight as far away from my lure as to not scare the fish away as the see this big chunk of lead zooming by.
 
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Mike123
Thuggin4Life said:
Dynamite lol. Far more effective than snagging. But on a more serious note i am more than willing to hook up with you guys and refine my fishing skills. Just Don't teach me how to long line. I have never used a leader more than like 3' except when flat lining and i want to keep my weight as far away from my lure as to not scare the fish away as the see this big chunk of lead zooming by.

The way to keep your weight back away from the bait is the way you hold your rod on the drift. Flossers hold their rod downstream and low so the line is going down the river horizontally this way it gets stuck in their mouth.
If you want to do it right, you want your weight a little more upstream from the bait. This way the fish sees your bait first and not the line or weight. It's like holding back on your float when float fishing. Your bait will head downstream fisrt before the line or weight does. Best presentation, and that is key in my opinion. A little more weight may be required for fishing this way.
 
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Thuggin4Life
Oh Thanks but i know the idea behind drift fishing my dad showed me how to do it i'm just not good at it. i was talking about trolling and adding weight to go deeper with like a 20' leader or so.
 
D
Dichrofisher
You'll have a lot more fun with spinners than flossing.
 
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Mike123
Bfishin said:
Anyone familiar with the term Long Lining? Dudes I know use that style for steelhead/salmon at the Dexter Dam. They use the longest leader they can cast. Usually around 10'. With a corkie. I guess it just lines them in the mouth. Seems to be pretty effective. Apparently you're just getting lucky to line one in the mouth? Anyone else fish like this?

Sorry just answering the original question..
I'd suggest starting a new thread about trolling.. cause this one is on the roll about snagging and flossing. ;)
 
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meluvtrout
>>Bfishin
This is the reason why you shouldn't be flossing or long lining for Salmon or Steelhead. Please read this article:

Spawning salmon traumatized by fishing technique



ShareThis
By Matt Weiser
mweiser@sacbee.com
Published: Saturday, Aug. 30, 2008 - 12:00 am | Page 1A
Fishermen are targeting salmon returning to spawn in the American River and other Central Valley streams, despite a virtual ban on all salmon fishing this year.
Even worse, some anglers are using a technique called "flossing," intended to hook salmon in the body, fin or face. The method is considered unethical by many fishermen. It appears to slip through a loophole in regulations designed to protect salmon.
"They're traumatizing these big fish," said Alan Weingarten, a state Department of Fish and Game warden who has observed the practice on the American River.
He said flossing is also happening on the Feather, Yuba and Sacramento rivers.
Flossing is generally done for sport; most fish are returned to the river. Yet game regulators are upset that salmon are being harassed.
"We need to leave these fish alone," he said, "but I don't think Fish and Game was very fortunate in the way the regulations were crafted."
Rules adopted in May ban anglers from keeping salmon from Central Valley rivers. The unprecedented emergency rules followed predictions of the worst salmon run in history this fall.
Commercial and recreational salmon fishing at sea are also banned.
However, officials did not ban catch-and-release salmon fishing. They urged anglers in a July 2 press release to "use a very conservative approach" and "refrain from any catch-and-release fishing that specifically targets salmon."
Flossing, intended to hook salmon when they are most vulnerable, hardly heeds that message, said Bill Lowe, a Fair Oaks fly fishing guide. He said salmon now returning to spawn could be harmed even by routine fishing pressure.
"I believe they shouldn't be fished, period, especially in the dire situation we are fighting now," said Lowe. "If people are fishing to them, they are harassing them."
Salmon returning early to spawn typically wait until conditions are right by hovering in deeper water just downstream of rapids. Sometimes they wait in groups. Salmon don't eat during their spawning run, but constantly open and close their mouths while parked, to breathe and clean their gills.
Flossing is designed to take advantage of this behavior:
• The angler uses a long leader attached to the end of the main body of line, at least double the normal length at between 8 and 20 feet. It's weighted at one end, with a hook at the other.
• A colorful bead or piece of yarn is attached to the leader just above the hook. This ensures the rig meets the legal definition of a lure, and the angler can claim he is targeting steelhead (though few are in the rivers now).
• The leader is then cast across the river below a rapid where salmon are parked. As he reels the hook in, the angler banks on odds that the weighted leader will pass through a salmon's open mouth. When he feels that resistance, he sets the hook.
What happens, said Lowe, is that the line whips through the salmon's mouth and slams violently into its body – usually the face or head. Sometimes the hook tears off chunks of flesh or leaves gaping wounds. After the salmon is reeled in, removing the hook may leave a wound that can weaken fish. And though most fish are returned to the river, Lowe said, the trauma often causes the salmon to release its eggs or sperm on shore.
"If the practice continues … the harassment will cause some problems for the spawning family (of fish)," said Larry Barnes, tackle manager at Elkhorn Outdoor Sports, who has reluctantly sold flossing tackle to some anglers. "It's just people ignoring the intent of the salmon closure."
He said it is difficult to regulate because anglers can say they're not going after salmon. Also, fish are sometimes hooked by accident using even normal practices, so it's difficult to prove malicious intent.
Weingarten said he has been able to issue only one citation: On the American River last week, he cited an angler who kept a salmon after catching it with flossing gear.
It's difficult to know if flossing endangers salmon, said Rob Titus, a state fisheries biologist who monitors American River salmon.
Studies have shown that routine catch-and-release fishing in the ocean kills about 15 percent of salmon caught. A similar estimate for in-river fishing has yet to be developed.
Marija Vojkovich, marine region supervisor at Fish and Game, said the agency may consider new regulations if fishing pressure seems to be harming this fall's salmon run.
Barnes hopes it doesn't come to that.
"The average fisherman out there has a responsibility to make sure his practices promote the regeneration and repopulation of the fish," he said. "It's not just up to Fish and Game. It has to do with everybody."
 
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Thuggin4Life
Mike123 said:
Sorry just answering the original question..
I'd suggest starting a new thread about trolling.. cause this one is on the roll about snagging and flossing. ;)

Well you quoted me so i thought you were commenting on me sorry just talking about when i would use a long leader.
 
B
Bfishin
meluvtrout said:
>>Bfishin
This is the reason why you shouldn't be flossing or long lining for Salmon or Steelhead. Please read this article:

I'm the OP here. I was just looking for an opinion on how the method works and its legality, but I got a little bit more! :dance:I realized that I grew up learning to fish this method on the American River at Nimbus Dam as a wee. One wouldn't know any better if that's all they were taught. I could barely tie my own knots. Pops would take me down there to catch some Salmon. He learned from the locals that that was the way to catch Salmon down there. One wouldn't think much of it either if they were fairly new to Salmon fishin (kinda naive). Every single angler down there (this particular area of the American) uses a "floss" rig. Anyway, interesting article. I can see how C&R a spawning fish would harm it in some way, but think, all of us here are after a fish that is just trying to spawn. Fishing for them period harrassses them. I don't fish for them unless I can legally keep them to eat. If a central valley river is closed to salmon angling I DON'T fish it for Salmon.
 
F
Fishtopher
Bfishin said:
I realized that I grew up learning to fish this method on the American River at Nimbus Dam as a wee. One wouldn't know any better if that's all they were taught. I could barely tie my own knots.

Couldnt expect anything else:clap:. Can now though:D;). Can expect you to tie your own knots and take the time to educate other anglers what fishing really is. You can break the chain man. :pray:The peace and well being of the Planet rests in your hands:pray:....:lol:
 
P
pdx89
i understand that laws are there for a reason, and breaking them is not correct... but after reading the posting, i have a few things that i want to mention; first of all, we all live in time of age where everyone has same rights... how can anglers still snag carp or other non-game fish? i dont favor carp. but if its not ''good'' for game fish, than why is it ok for other fish? the law should go for ALL fish. Second of all, i have caught trout, crappie, flounder and a few other outside the mouth, and in most cases i was bottom fishing with bait:think: and i have caught coho's in thier bottoms ( and i was not snagging) why did that happen? i was not snagging those cohos' or trout, it just so happend. thirdly, my dad caught a dead salmon, might i add that he that he lives by the rules, not snagging or anything he pulled out a dead fish... with the setup, inside the fish's mouth... hum:think::think::think: last but not least, it does not matter if our guys in combat use a missle or a bomb... they get the job done, the bottom line is fish need respect, but for them it really does not matter how to die
 
M
Mike123
pdx89 said:
i understand that laws are there for a reason, and breaking them is not correct... but after reading the posting, i have a few things that i want to mention; first of all, we all live in time of age where everyone has same rights... how can anglers still snag carp or other non-game fish? i dont favor carp. but if its not ''good'' for game fish, than why is it ok for other fish? the law should go for ALL fish. Second of all, i have caught trout, crappie, flounder and a few other outside the mouth, and in most cases i was bottom fishing with bait:think: and i have caught coho's in thier bottoms ( and i was not snagging) why did that happen? i was not snagging those cohos' or trout, it just so happend. thirdly, my dad caught a dead salmon, might i add that he that he lives by the rules, not snagging or anything he pulled out a dead fish... with the setup, inside the fish's mouth... hum:think::think::think: last but not least, it does not matter if our guys in combat use a missle or a bomb... they get the job done, the bottom line is fish need respect, but for them it really does not matter how to die

I believe carp are a non-native warm water fish. ODFW doesn't care about them. They may not be considered a "game fish" in Oregon. I've hooked fish outside the mouth before too! I think if it's hooked in the head and forward from the gills, more than likely it was fairly hooked. There is no way a dead fish can go after something and bite it, so your dad must of lined the fish. I've seen it happen.
 
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pdx89
about carp, i dont care for it... but in day and age when everyone has same rights, dont you think we should revise that... only to be fair to the fish? ... after all carp has rights too, and they need a choice of either to live or die, take or not take your bait, and so forth....:D:D:D .. you just dont want to go that route:D:cool:
im all for laws, dont get me wrong,but some things just get me. for example, trout - its all ''legal'' to catch and release fish as long as you dont keep more than what is permitted. but at the same time, the same angler will catch and release trout. Trout that he caught with the hook in its gut, and to release it he rips out the hook, thus killing it... and thats all legal:(.... it really sadness me when i see that, when there is a pile of fish next to the bank, all dead, hundreds of them 8inch trout:(:(:(
 
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mgdguy
pdx89 said:
and i have caught coho's in thier bottoms ( and i was not snagging) why did that happen? i was not snagging those cohos' or trout, it just so happend.

Any person who fishes long enough will foul hook a fish. A REAL fisherman will throw it back :whistle:
 
M
mgdguy
I can't believe this thread is still alive, and people are still defending the method.... :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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pdx89
mgdguy said:
I can't believe this thread is still alive, and people are still defending the method.... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

most people, including my self are not defending it.... we are just taking about the issue
and yes, people who fish for some time do eventually hook fish outside their mouth... but you can't call them all of them snaggers.... i know older folks who build up the system of fishing, by upkeeping the laws, and having a direct say in ODFW. i fished with them, and believe me they live and fish even striker than the book.... but then comes along a youngster, who has not a clue about fishing, but only knows about snagging, and how bad it is, and starts bad mouthing the senior gramppa... that's what gets me, not the act of snagging but blaming almost everyone for doing it..... i have found out over the years that anglers who advocate '' i never snag, and if i do by accident i let them go'' those seem most likely to break the law themselves, again not every one is like that... i just ran across quite a few over the years in different states
 
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mgdguy
Ya lost me there on a lot of that PDX. That's ok. Good luck out there and tight lines.
 
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FishSlayer420
Well first of all people you bashed me for lining up at dexter but lets get one thing clear i do not keep any fish that aint hooked in the mouth. and we cannot even see the fish when we are lining. 85% of the time you hook a steelhead/Salmon when you are using a corkie and yarn those fish aint biting it you are lining it so i do not see the big deal everyone makes out of this. FISH ON!
 
B
BobberDown
ok so here it is long lineing or flossing what ever you call it it is snagging . read these qweshoins if you can awser yes guess what your a snager .
1 . is your lead over 5 feet long and te water is not every very clear and your fishing in a 6to 20 foot deep slow moving hole ???????
2. are you running just a little piace of yarn or a corky or 2 corkys or just beads in your egg loop or corkys off the back of your hook. and a big hook for the fish you are after like for steelhead and coho a 1/0 to 4-0 or for nooks 2/0 to 5/0. those are some hook sizes that are a little big for drift fishing with out bait .
3. do you set the hook evry cast and sometimes more than once in the sam cast and i dont mean just lifting your rod tip when you hit a rock i mean you thought it was a fish .
4. can you here your rod tip zipping throu the air when you set the hook.
useing that fast hook set not the slower and i mean just slow eught you can't hear it but loaded with pouwer to berry that hook to the jaw bone .
that lightning fast hook set does not have very much power in it you are just trying to get a hook into somthing you are not trying to hook fish that are acktivly feedin because you would be alittle bit more worrid about pulling your bait or what ever out of its mouth .
oh and that is also something odfw looks for with snagers and i quote ODFW at dodge park coho season ( slow it down if i can here your rod zipping throu the air your not fishing your snagging and i will write you a ticket!!!!!!!!)
5. is the first thing you say is its in themouth????????
6. after you set the hook and miss a fish does your hook have scales on it a lot of the time you need to stop .
rethink what you are seting the hook on that is not a fishes mouth your feeling it was a fin or a tale slap or the fishes body vibrateing the line .
a fish biteing or mouthing your bait or rig feels a lot diffrent .



now dont get me wrong the most eprance angler will fal hook some fish when there is 50 to 300 fish in a hole or be fooled in to seting the hook on what the thought was a bite it happens but what i have writen about is some of what ODFW use todetermin snaggers from fisher men so if you can awner yes to some or all of those qweshoins you might want to rethink how you are fishing .
Dan
 
A
ArcticAmoeba
Alright, regardless of how much good information is presented on this thread... It is going to get out of hand quickly if we keep arguing. Effectively snagging fish is a learned technique, so you cannont blame amateurs/ignorant people for it. Those snagging are not ignorant. They are doing it with purpose. And the reason for 10 foot leaders and corkie is to get the proper line angle, covering the most water in the area fish hold You do not need to see the fish, just feel the bump. You can line fish from inside the mouth with 12 inch leaders if you can sight fish 'em. There is no need, but it can be done, and probably is done by someone somewhere. Point is, this type of fishing is going on everywhere. Do your part to stop it. Educate the willing, and ring up OSP and the local police for those un-willing to stop. Targeting fish with the intent to un-farily hook them is also illegal... That is why you can get written a ticket for the gear you run if the officer knows that particular rig to be inneffective in the area being policed. Keep the arguments/banter to a minimum. This one has pretty much played itself out. Wait until the middle of September. Snag threads will be pouring out of our ears!
 
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