john day steelies

[Troutski]

Deep breath....

Deep breath....

Every one take a deep breath, each angler has the right to catch and release where legal. Each angler has the right to Catch Photo and Release with in the limits of the law, with this in mind keep the flaming to a small roar.
As a mod I do carry a very large stick, this is not Westfly or Ifish, please keep this in mind.

Chuck

 

[bigdog]

:lol:Sorry I'm not trying to get anything started here by far. I know everyone has a point of veiw here on this and I know I can't be the only one that wonders why you can't keep a nat. As far as I know there are places you can and then there are places you can't. Don't get what the difference is from place to place. I mean in one way or another aren't all fish desendence of a hachery fish in one way or another? Heck some of the ones we see as native fish could even be a hach fish that someone forgot to clip or just missed:lol: I don't know should I have not said anything on this subject :lol:

 

[joesnuffy]

Seriously? Um, yeah, I uh..... holy crap!

 

[Fishtopher]

Take care of OUR FISH

Take care of OUR FISH

You know as far as I see it as long as they are released what does it matter. Now I pretty sure this is going to get something started but if you ask me you should be able to keep the nats as well as the hach to me a fish is a fish is a fish. (I'm not saying I keep the nats) Just don't get the point or reason why you can't

Not picking you outta the crowd, just answering your question.

Here ya'll go, prepare to be learned. (Im surprised someone else aint learned ya'll already!)

From Time: 13most endangered Salmon runs in the Coumbia Basin

6.Upper Columbia steelhead,
Historic pop: 'bout 20,000 in 1900, 18,000 in 2005.
Wild componet: 9-35%.
Listed endangered in 1997, changed to threatened in 2005, major concern was the clear failure of natural stocks to reproduce.

7. Middle Columbia River Steelhead
Historic pop: 'bout 100,000 in 1900.
2005 pop: 'bout 20,000.
Wild componet:70%
Listed threatened in 1999, The middle Columbia Steelhead occupy the Columbia River Basin from Hood River and continues upstream to include the Yakima River in Washington. Within the area there are 15 population groups:Cascades Eastern Slope Tributaries, John Day River, Walla Walla River, and the Umitilla River. Populations in the White Salmon River and the Deschutes River above Pelton Dam are EXTINCT.

9. Lower Columbia River Steelhead
Historic pop: 'bout 25 million in 1900.
2005 pop: 'bout 16,000.
Wild Componet: 70%.
Listed threatened in 1998, the Lower Columbia River Steelhead encompasses all runs in tributaries between the Willamette and Hood Rivers.

13. Upper Willamette Steelhead
Historic pop: About 200,000 in 1900.
2005 pop: 'bout 5,000.
Wild Componet: 75%.
Listed threatened in 1999, the Upper Willamette Steelhead encompasses the Willamett River and tributaries upstream of Willamette Falls, extending ot and including the Calapooia River. Native winter steelhead within this area have been declining since 1971 and have exhibited large fluctiuations in abundance.
All of the other top 13 are disgusting as well. Take the time to educate an unknowing angler. These fish need all the help they can get!

Bigdog, I dont know of anywhere besides lakes and ponds that you can keep a native steelhead. There may be such a place, but know of it I do not.(I think its called Heaven...)

I would try to influence others to be more mindfull when going for the grande photo op when they have landed a native steelhead, or any other native fish, or any fish to be released for that matter, and keep the fish in the water! You can still get a nice photo that way...matter of fact it will probably look way cooler!! Not to mention, the water temp this time of year is usually warmer than it is outside...warm up your hands.

 

[Fishtopher]

Right on!

Right on!

Every one take a deep breath, each angler has the right to catch and release where legal. Each angler has the right to Catch Photo and Release with in the limits of the law, with this in mind keep the flaming to a small roar.
As a mod I do carry a very large stick, this is not Westfly or Ifish, please keep this in mind.

Chuck

You tell 'em Chuck, couldn't have said it any better!

 

[joesnuffy]

Superb post Fishtopher.

 

[joesnuffy]

Seriously, how does a report like this not piss EVERYBODY off?

1. Snake River sockeye
Historic population: between 45-55,000 around 1900.
2006 population: Only 3
Wild component: Only 16 total since 1991.
Listed: Endangered in 1991.
Notes: During the early 1880s, Snake River Sockeye Salmon returns to Wallowa Lake, Oregon, were estimated at between 24,000 and 30,000 per year.

 

[bigdog]

Well see now I know like everyone knows I have been only doing the salmon and steelhead fishery sence this summer and really haven't done any reading on the history of them. Just read on the does and don'ts and follow what they say without knowing why they say them. Now with that said I bet if they stop the gilnetting bet it would all get a lot better because its not like they can catch and release with that fishing method. I'm all for keeping something from becoming the next dinasor

 

[Troutski]

Native Fish....

Native Fish....

Very interesting phrase "Native Fish", then there is the phrase "Wild Fish" another interesting phrase. If you really think about the hatchery programs of the good old days, I truly believe we have no true "Native Fish". The gene pool is so polluted from years of unchecked and blatant stocking of all fresh water game fish that the term native has lost its definition.
Now the newer programs from ODFW and the FED are much better regulated and structured; but in all honesty the damage has all ready been done. Now throw in a hundred years of the Pocket Biologist and well you see the trend. When an angler can go out on the Umpqua River and catch and keep a "Native/Wild Spring Chinook Salmon and 40 miles up the coast that same fish must be returned unharmed, I fail to see the logic. Take the all mighty Sturgeon for instance, these fish are very migratory by nature from the Columbia to the Bays in the south of our state...these are the same fish. How does one tell the difference between a fish from one river system and another, come on give me a break. Most anglers can't even tell the difference between our two species of fresh water Salmon let alone a fish of this magnitude. The rules and regulations that are on the books at this time in our history are geared to trying to save a stocked(hatchery) fish that has gotten out of control.
There are things that can be done to ease these regulations but we as a sport are not properly recognized and represented in the drafting of these rules. On this matter did any one see what the price of a fishing license will be if the Governor has way by 2010...The only thing we as a group can do is read the rules and ask questions and fish as many days as possible during the year to get the most bang for your buck...sorry for the rant, it has been building up for a while; I do feel much better now.

Chuck

 

[Fishtopher]

Well said.:clap:

 

[bigdog]

Didn't seem like you were ranting at all in fact that is some what what I was saying in the first place. Anyways like was said before well said.

 

[mgdguy]

ok now I have what may be a stupid question:

Scenerio: you hook and land a native steelie/salmon/whatever. This fish is many pounds of muscle, slimy, and not happy to be in your grasp with a hook in it's lip. You are alone. How in the HELL do you - 100% of the time - get the hook out, keep your grasp, all while keeping the fish IN THE WATER.

enlighten me

BTW - also did make it out to John Day today and caught my FIRST Steelhead....So yay me! Pics and seperate post to follow in a couple days.

 

[Troutski]

Congratulations...

Congratulations...

ok now I have what may be a stupid question:

Scenerio: you hook and land a native steelie/salmon/whatever. This fish is many pounds of muscle, slimy, and not happy to be in your grasp with a hook in it's lip. You are alone. How in the HELL do you - 100% of the time - get the hook out, keep your grasp, all while keeping the fish IN THE WATER.

enlighten me

BTW - also did make it out to John Day today and caught my FIRST Steelhead....So yay me! Pics and seperate post to follow in a couple days.

Congrats on the Steelie....as far as your question on how to land a fish with all those things you spoke of in mind. This is why we do it...being able to keep your cool and do all the right things at the right time. This is angling at its best, nothing feels better than to handle a fish from the very beginning to the release and enjoy the whole experience...epically when its a accidental catch, you know when you are Trout fishing and hook a Steelie. Angling is like most exciting things in life one never learns it all and there is always something you forgot to anticipate...:think: Again congratulations on the Steelie...great feeling.:dance:

Chuck

 

[mgdguy]

Congrats on the Steelie....as far as your question on how to land a fish with all those things you spoke of in mind. This is why we do it...being able to keep your cool and do all the right things at the right time. This is angling at its best, nothing feels better than to handle a fish from the very beginning to the release and enjoy the whole experience...epically when its a accidental catch, you know when you are Trout fishing and hook a Steelie. Angling is like most exciting things in life one never learns it all and there is always something you forgot to anticipate...:think: Again congratulations on the Steelie...great feeling.:dance:

Chuck

Thanks, it was a great feeling. And hopefully the first of many more to come.

I'm sure you all can guess I had a little trouble getting the hook out of mine All's well that ends well though, and it did.

Thanks again. Love this forum and all it's taught me so far!

 

[Fishtopher]

Sorry for the long post...probly makes no sense...

Sorry for the long post...probly makes no sense...

ok now I have what may be a stupid question:

Scenerio: you hook and land a native steelie/salmon/whatever. This fish is many pounds of muscle, slimy, and not happy to be in your grasp with a hook in it's lip. You are alone. How in the HELL do you - 100% of the time - get the hook out, keep your grasp, all while keeping the fish IN THE WATER.

enlighten me

First you play the fish enough that it is not going to go crazy when it feels its belly scrapin rocks/sees your ugly mug through the water.
If fishing without a net, look for a good place to land your fish. Only experience NOT having a good place will help you recognize the good place. Even when using a net, you are not in full control of scenario until the fish is in. Some of my best fishin days came when the guy across the hole hooks into a big one and does the "Landing Dance". You know the one. Ya that one where the guy reaches with the net, and allows the fish some leeway by leaning forward, then leans back with the rod, then reaches with the net, and allows the fish some leeway, etc. and so on. back to the story.
Once you have the landing strip identified, you can then proceed to land your tired out fish. And when I say land, I dont mean huck the fish up on the bank. It means you have complete control over the fish you have caught, in your hands/net. I have yet to find a way to do so with dropping/putting down my rod. Heck, I just figured out how to do it without fallin on my...
I usually grab the line and get on in the water. Only if I plan on releasing the fish. Obviously, you have to handle fish, you just have to minimize how much stress caused to the fish when handled.
Now, as for a difference between holding the fish slightly in or barely above the water, or wrestling the fish to get it up the bank and hold it like a newborn baby, in my opinion, it makes a world of difference!

So you take this fish, no legs, no arms, get him outta the water for a 15-20 seconds, and you can't see what the fish thinks bout it till you go for the release, at which point, it floats sideways and barely swims. You couldnt tell until it was too late.
Now you take a cat. Four legs, lotsa claws, failrly obvious when stressed. Put him IN the water for 15-20 seconds, and the results are disasterous...lottsa blood involved...not that I would know...just guessing.

 

[joesnuffy]

Congrats on your first steelhead!!!!!

As for the weakening of the gene pool do to the introduction of Hatchery fish..... I agree.

However, to say that most of the fish are now hatchery or a byproduct of is wrong. (in my opinion - i'm not a scientist) If you've ever been on a river and caught a 25 - 30 inch fish, skinny body, ok color, decent fight and a clipped fin and then 30 minutes later on the same water, catch a 35"+ fish, bright silver, fat body, fights like a crazed mule and doesn't have that clipped fin, can tell the difference between the hatchery and the Native.

I know that most people on this forum are from the west side of the state are don't see the fish that wee see over here. Most of the fish you see have not traveled that far, have sea lice on them and are about as fresh as they get.

Once they get to me over here in Eastern Oregon, the fish have traveled over 500 miles, have been in fresh water for months, and are NOT at the top of there physical fitness. Here is where you can tell the difference. The natives continue to be strong and healthy a lot longer then the hatchery fish.

Ok, I'll shut up now.

 

[Fishtopher]

Good point Joe, however I think one point Troutski was just trying to make is that there is a difference in a "native" fish and a "wild" fish, with a "native" being a fish whose ancestor's all have been "native" fish, never been bred with any hatchery fish, and a "wild" fish being a non clippped fish, but whose ancestors may have spawned with a hatchery fish somewhere down the line.
Sure it looks "native", and fights "native", but you can't tell that its great grandpa was a stray hatchery who got its groove on with a true native fish and happened to be a success in spreading the inferior hatchery fish genes.

The fish hatched from the "wild" and the "native" go on to spread more inferior genes, and though the difference may not be noticeable to you, the difference is there none the less.

 

[joesnuffy]

unless to fish only has a little hatchery you can still tell over here. I wish i had a comparitive photo for you all.

anyways, i think we all argee the the hatchey fish suck and you should take as many that you can catch home.

 

[Fishtopher]

anyways, i think we all argee the the hatchey fish suck and you should take as many that you can catch home.

Im with ya there!

 

[Kodiak]

Native fish

Native fish

I live on the north fork of the Santiam. In the years of the drift nets we lost a lot of our native fish. There is a huge difference between the hatchery fish and wild fish. I am well over 200 river miles from the ocean. By the time we see hatchery fish they are darker, slower, and not nearly as aggresive. Our winter hatchery run has been removed by order of the feds, however we still have a wild run. These fish are still bright, strong, and very very angry when you hook one. these fish will battle to the death, and prefer that death be yours (poor Archie...thats a different story). These fish deserve to be protected, and please club away at the hatchery fish.