B
bigdog
Go fish
Flossers
C
cobias
A few observations -
There are fewer salmon and steelhead coming than what the counts represent . You don't actually think they count every fish do you ? But they want to sell tags...so they fudge.
They are recycling the steelhead like mad, but only carting them down to greenwood keeping all the pressure ( and hype ) on the dam to greenwood run. This is evident by how many steelhead i have seen with lots of sores and tank rub already.
The state turns their head when it comes to flossing because those flossers buy tags to be ' legal ' . Generates plenty of 'needed revenue' wouldn't you say ?
And as far as getting up at 0 dark thirty to fight the crowds and drift your little sandshrimpy ( 5 dozen in a day ) or floss through the slaughter slot ( pressure hole ) is NOT steelhead fishing. At all. Takes little skill . Brainless. Been there done that. Limits day after day in the hatchery creek hole in 99. Proved nothing.
Learn to enjoy fishing and gain some real skill in reading water and leave that hell hole to all those little boys still trying to prove their manhood.
There are fewer salmon and steelhead coming than what the counts represent . You don't actually think they count every fish do you ? But they want to sell tags...so they fudge.
They are recycling the steelhead like mad, but only carting them down to greenwood keeping all the pressure ( and hype ) on the dam to greenwood run. This is evident by how many steelhead i have seen with lots of sores and tank rub already.
The state turns their head when it comes to flossing because those flossers buy tags to be ' legal ' . Generates plenty of 'needed revenue' wouldn't you say ?
And as far as getting up at 0 dark thirty to fight the crowds and drift your little sandshrimpy ( 5 dozen in a day ) or floss through the slaughter slot ( pressure hole ) is NOT steelhead fishing. At all. Takes little skill . Brainless. Been there done that. Limits day after day in the hatchery creek hole in 99. Proved nothing.
Learn to enjoy fishing and gain some real skill in reading water and leave that hell hole to all those little boys still trying to prove their manhood.
Y
Yogidabear
cobias said:
Interesting take on it, I think you did learn something fishing that area in 99. which probably helped bring yourself up to a higher skill level by fishing that water. I'm sure you found where they hang out. and what it feels like when the strike. For people like me who have fished countless hours all up and down the Mckenzie with nothing to show for it, boredom and frustration set in pretty fast . Meeting some very nice people up there helping me catch a fish or two has giving me some hope on where to look and what to use.
People fish Alaska all the time where the numbers of fish are usally very high and so is the catch rate so whats really the difference? I would like to think every fish I catch is legit, Every hook has been from the inside of the mouth. Have they been in the corner yes two of them the other two were half way between the corner and front. Who really know's if a fish takes the bait of not? It's not like they are in the middle of the back.
C
cobias
Yogidabear said:
If you run a spinner about 1 foot deep through tailouts , or are pulling plugs and you limit - all fish hooked deeply in the mouth - its pretty clear that they took it. People try to justify long leaders. Face it, if you use them , you are cheating- end of story.
Fish have no concept of what a line or weights are. They are affraid of three things - quick movements , moving shadows and certain odors . This is evident by watching driftboats slowly passing over fish and the fish just move out of the way then move back to their holding spot. If a driftboat doesn't scare them to death - a slinky and a 3' 10lb leader wont either. No reason for even a 5' leader much less a 7' one.
With that said, any fish that has been in the pressure hole for more than ten minutes will not bite. Those fish get bumped by line , beaned by weights , scared by other hooked fish thrashing around etc. When the bite is 'on' , all it is is a fresh wave of fish moving into the hole. I learned this a long time ago.
One way to stop flossing is to get the retailers to put pressure on the state. If people had to actually fish , they would have to use different techniques thus having to buy different lures lines and rods to accommodate the situation.
Now its - buy a high end cool looking drift rod and casting reel so you look legit. Plenty of 12 lb leader , lead, 1/0 hooks and size 12 corkies any color... and a tag.
Even if you drown sandshrimp all day up there- its not fishing. The fish are in one slot from the first revetment clear down to the tail of the pressure hole. No brainer. Drift where everybody else drifts.
Id like to put a few of those people in my boat and let them run the show - let them pick what holes to fish , what color size of plug to pull , where and how to anchor in holes , how to put up and fish good eggs , etc etc. It would be a different show for sure.
But nothing will change. The State wants that tag money ohhh so bad.
J
joem
if the fish takes the bait you will feel a series of bites not just one big pull usualy, not always. i have seen fish hooked in the lip that i felt the bite on. and i have had it where you can barely see the shank of the hook sticking out of the belly. a spooked fish bites better than a calm fish. and a fish can be in the hole for hours and then all of a sudden go on the bite its about feeding times and presentation.
C
cobias
joem said:
A moved fish will bite. A spooked fish that has been bumped by line , bit by hooks and has seen 50 million sandshrimp in on hour will not bite...unless you are using long leaders right ?
J
joem
cobias said:
ya thats what i ment a fish spooked by a boat will bite but one spooked from lines wont usually. you toss rocks in a hole and if there was fish there in about 5 mins they will be on there way back up and you will catch them.
T
TTFishon
cobias said:If you run a spinner about 1 foot deep through tailouts , or are pulling plugs and you limit - all fish hooked deeply in the mouth - its pretty clear that they took it. People try to justify long leaders. Face it, if you use them , you are cheating- end of story.
Fish have no concept of what a line or weights are. They are affraid of three things - quick movements , moving shadows and certain odors . This is evident by watching driftboats slowly passing over fish and the fish just move out of the way then move back to their holding spot. If a driftboat doesn't scare them to death - a slinky and a 3' 10lb leader wont either. No reason for even a 5' leader much less a 7' one.
With that said, any fish that has been in the pressure hole for more than ten minutes will not bite. Those fish get bumped by line , beaned by weights , scared by other hooked fish thrashing around etc. When the bite is 'on' , all it is is a fresh wave of fish moving into the hole. I learned this a long time ago.
One way to stop flossing is to get the retailers to put pressure on the state. If people had to actually fish , they would have to use different techniques thus having to buy different lures lines and rods to accommodate the situation.
Now its - buy a high end cool looking drift rod and casting reel so you look legit. Plenty of 12 lb leader , lead, 1/0 hooks and size 12 corkies any color... and a tag.
Even if you drown sandshrimp all day up there- its not fishing. The fish are in one slot from the first revetment clear down to the tail of the pressure hole. No brainer. Drift where everybody else drifts.
Id like to put a few of those people in my boat and let them run the show - let them pick what holes to fish , what color size of plug to pull , where and how to anchor in holes , how to put up and fish good eggs , etc etc. It would be a different show for sure.
But nothing will change. The State wants that tag money ohhh so bad.
So why is using sand shrimp not fishing in your eyes?
C
Carothers
TTFishon said:
He is saying fishing with sandshrimp at the pressure hole is not fishing. because of the fact it is a no brainer, do what everyone else is doing type of deal.
C
Carothers
yes! I agree with just about everything you are saying here. especially the pick out a cool looking drift fishing set-up and try to prove your manhood!:lol:cobias said:If you run a spinner about 1 foot deep through tailouts , or are pulling plugs and you limit - all fish hooked deeply in the mouth - its pretty clear that they took it. People try to justify long leaders. Face it, if you use them , you are cheating- end of story.
Fish have no concept of what a line or weights are. They are affraid of three things - quick movements , moving shadows and certain odors . This is evident by watching driftboats slowly passing over fish and the fish just move out of the way then move back to their holding spot. If a driftboat doesn't scare them to death - a slinky and a 3' 10lb leader wont either. No reason for even a 5' leader much less a 7' one.
With that said, any fish that has been in the pressure hole for more than ten minutes will not bite. Those fish get bumped by line , beaned by weights , scared by other hooked fish thrashing around etc. When the bite is 'on' , all it is is a fresh wave of fish moving into the hole. I learned this a long time ago.
One way to stop flossing is to get the retailers to put pressure on the state. If people had to actually fish , they would have to use different techniques thus having to buy different lures lines and rods to accommodate the situation.
Now its - buy a high end cool looking drift rod and casting reel so you look legit. Plenty of 12 lb leader , lead, 1/0 hooks and size 12 corkies any color... and a tag.
Even if you drown sandshrimp all day up there- its not fishing. The fish are in one slot from the first revetment clear down to the tail of the pressure hole. No brainer. Drift where everybody else drifts.
Id like to put a few of those people in my boat and let them run the show - let them pick what holes to fish , what color size of plug to pull , where and how to anchor in holes , how to put up and fish good eggs , etc etc. It would be a different show for sure.
But nothing will change. The State wants that tag money ohhh so bad.
C
Carothers
dtikey said:
I dont know if the pressure hole really produces the most out of the areas i fish. Maybe in may and early june when the pressure is not so bad. I mean it's usually onesy maybe twosy at its best when your really fishing. Rarely do i see somebody walk out of there with 2 fish, let alone a limit, I have never limited. I could sit and watch like 30 guys catch maybe 10-15 fish and that would be considered "good". That is less than 50 percent. I went back to my new spot today and got 2 more without seeing another angler. one 31.5" hen. i don't know how to pics tho!.
But when it comes to giving away information about how to fish n such, i will give it to family and close friends but i have had too many holes and hot tips ruined, not only fishing but hunting too, to go giving it away real easy. I have to trust the person. So that rules out forums on the internet for everyone to see. There is nothing wrong with pointers and basics, but to go giving away all the specifics and how to's, you might be helping somebody new, but you are probably ruining it for the hardworking guy that really put in his time to learn, and find the hole, hot tip, bait, etc. He didn't just take the easy route and ask to be spoonfed on here, or ifish.
I have gained a lot of fishing knowledge from my father and grandfather, however a lot of it has come from my own personal trials and tribulations, covering the river and putting in hours of fishing until I find stuff that works. I found out about the pressure hole by floating the river, fishing for salmon.
C
cobias
Carothers said:
im sensing some sarcasm here but tell me im wrong, really ...all those guys go up there and spend all day for fun right ?
Fun is putting on the river late with high hopes but low expectations , doing everything right but not touching crap then hooking a chinook on a trout spinner in the last hole after you have had one too many and wrapping the day up with a smile on your face. Thats what its all about.
But hey, if you want to spend all that money on sandshrimp and fishing shoulder to shoulder with snaggers in the blazing hot sun just so you can take home your ' two ' i wont blame you. Have at er'.
At some point you learn to fish for fun...the rest is icing on the cake.
That said- flossers should go away.
C
Carothers
No sarcasm at all!
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