jamisonace
I won't disagree with you on anything here. My original post was calling into question why it's silly (your words) to compare how states manage their wildlife but not silly to compare paying for fishing to paying for a blazers game. That's it. That's all I was saying. I find it much less relevant to compare that latter.But I am paying for a service. I am paying for stocking, rules enforcement, rescue, etc... Yes, we could go around and around all day about if the money is being managed well or not, that is not an argument I am going to get into because I don't know the history of ODFW well enough to speak to it. But without stocking and regulation, there wouldn't be any fish to catch anymore. And I do pay for clean air and water, through my taxes, which are used to enforce regulations that keep people and industry from dumping pollution and waste into the air and water. Again, we could argue about the way it is being managed, but without pollution regulation we literally had rivers catching fire in this country.
I'll blame it on being sick for the last week but I did to you what I hate people doing on this forum....picking out one little irrelevant aspect of a post and making it into something bigger than it is. My bad.I agree as well, I'm sure there is waste in the bureaucracy. Heck, I've worked in senior management for private business for years (going on a couple decades) and the amount of waste I see there is ridiculous, and that directly affects a bottom line. I try to balance between trusting the people who are experts (biologists who have spent years getting education and experience in their field), but also expecting accountability on costs and decisions. And unfortunately when you try and please everyone you generally please no one. Kinda like the old Bayliner ski and fish I have, it tries to be a boat that does everything, and does none of it well
The problem is (and this is coming from someone who agrees with you) we have to manage it, because we have altered it so much. We have to manage deer and elk populations because the predators are gone (or have reduced numbers). We have to manage stocked fish populations (like the pike on Colorado's western slope) because they are destroying the native fish populations. We have to build fish ladders to go around the dams we built. We have to dredge the Mississippi because we create a channel... Etc ad nauseum...Some info from the other side of the Earth. )
Here in Ukraine we don't have a fishing license so we don't have to pay for fishing. We do have fishing regulations and limits (size of species that can be kept, total weight of catch, etc). We have a prohibited period during spawn season. There are hatcheries that add fish to rivers. But it all covered from the country budget. All the people cover it by their taxes. And that makes sense - why only anglers have to pay for keeping rivers healthy?
And another thought. I remember watching a video about destroying dam (don't remember in what state) and the next year salmon was spawning up the river. It was something like 70 years that fish can't go up, many fish generations changed, and no fish could "remember the path home". But it took just a blink for fish to fill the water. What I want to say - there is no need to "manage" environment. All we need to do is just not destroying it. I guess. )
No worries, I wasn't offended. At the end of the day what we all want is to go fishing!I'll blame it on being sick for the last week but I did to you what I hate people doing on this forum....picking out one little irrelevant aspect of a post and making it into something bigger than it is. My bad.
BINGO!!! I just looked at the cost, last weekend, to get my license and 2 rod endorsement. I'd swear that I got both last year, for the price of just the basic license this year. And I already know that the fishing will be NO better than it has been in the past!I'm always happy to pay higher prices for better quality. More expensive camping means less crowds and better amenities as an example. In this case more expensive fishing doesn't mean better fishing. I know you're not a steelheader but we are in our 2nd year in a row of the worst steelhead fishing this state has ever seen. I would expect better for the high licensing costs.
that was my point (my English is sooo rusty...)we have to manage it, because we have altered it so much
Greed. The third of the seven. )a Big Mac cost $2.39 in 2000, $4.29 in 2010, and $4.95 today
I was going to comment that you are comparing an artificial government price increase to a private business responding to market pressure but I realized that is not the case here. Both prices are being artificially increased. One because state government decided to and the other because state government doubled the minimum wage and McDonalds had no other option.We pay higher prices for all kinds of things that didn't improve, and never complain about it (at least not directly, maybe when we complain about inflation). For example, a Big Mac cost $2.39 in 2000, $4.29 in 2010, and $4.95 today (depending on what market you are in). Yet we still buy them, even with 107% price increase over 20 years, with no value difference (the Big Mac is the Big Mac).
I was riding high in the 2000's. Then the recession took 20% of my income almost immediately and kept falling from there. I definitely don't feel as comfortable today as I once did. I do spend a lot more money on fishing today though so I only have myself to blame.How did your pay change over the same time period? Disposable income?
I know you're not a steelheader but we are in our 2nd year in a row of the worst steelhead fishing this state has ever seen.
Possibly....and yes....FJB and the horse he rode in on.Also Jamisonace, let’s go Brandon?
I’m definitely not an economist, but I suspect longitudinal trends that predate the current administration may have had some minor effects on the economy.
I was going to comment that you are comparing an artificial government price increase to a private business responding to market pressure but I realized that is not the case here. Both prices are being artificially increased. One because state government decided to and the other because state government doubled the minimum wage and McDonalds had no other option.
We generally don't complain about inflationary rates of price increase but I see people complaining all the time now because inflation is 3x what it was pre Biden. I know that fishing license prices have stabilized a bit in the last couple years but there were a few years that the prices were being raised by double digits every year.
It is amazing how addicted we are to McDonalds which produces the worst food in the universe but I digress.
My point was that you cannot buy a fishing license from anyone but the government so their price increases have nothing to do with demand (and only sometimes have to do with production cost increases). If you want to fish, you pay the money. There is no other option. That is why license costs outpaced inflation significantly since around 2007 if I remember right.Even government programs are subject to the same market pressures as private business. I don't know all of the costs involved in raising fish and rule enforcement, but we can make some assumptions here. For example, it takes electricity, fish food, and labor to run a hatchery. I'm sure the costs of all increase year over year (as pretty much all commodities do). Plus the cost of maintenance, capital upgrades, etc... For enforcement, they have upkeep and capital upgrades as well, and I'm sure that rangers get raises, so the cost of labor would increase year over year, as it does for pretty much all companies, regardless of minimum wage. The longer an employee is with an employer, the more money they expect to make (up to a certain threshold). As I was writing this, it dawned on me that since it is a governmental department, you can see the budget any time, I found the link (below).
https://www.dfw.state.or.us/agency/budget/archive.asp