Stolen boat!! *please view* Not a member's boat!

[troutmasta]

Big dog -I agree with you on everything. We all assume. I was mearly pointing out that I didn't think all addicts came from broken homes.
For the "death sentance group" States like Texas that have massive amounts of capital punishment contain citys like Dallas and Houston that have massive amountss of crime and murder.

 

[bigdog]

I don't think it is right for anyone to try to blame anything on how or where someone was brought up in life, bottom line is you choose what you are going to do and become yourself. It don't matter what happen to someone as a youth they can choose what they do with themselfs. That's like these people that are in prison for murder, rape, and anything, people try to pull this the devil made me do kiss my rear the devil don't make no one do a thing it is the choose of the person what they do.

CJ

 

[troutmasta]

Theres no blame. I just think if it is a broken home its a toxic environment for a child. Therefore eduction I believe is highly beneficial to these children, hence my first comment about the education of kids in bad spots.
Cheers to you for taking the bull by the horns and making something of life.
It can be done.

 

[bigdog]

Yes it can be done and yes more children need to know that they have the control in what the outcome of their life is. They do see things in life and some do end up thinking what they see is right and think that is the way life should be. I feel bad for the ones that see that and wish they all would realise that they have the control to change what happens to them.
I have been through a lot in life, watched my mom be beat and gun to her head in front of me by one boyfriend she had another one would wake me in the mornings after she left for work by lifting me out of bed with his hands around my throat. Watched my mom addicted to meth and overcome her addiction. 16+ years ago I was addicted to meth and was able to over come that as well. father that was never there in fact I was conceived while my fathers wife was in labor with my half brother. Ok I could go on for ever but the bottom line is that people do have the choice in their life's just some don't know they can choose different and some know they can but don't want to.
Sorry didn't mean to go off topic like that and give a half life story about myself. I do wish there was more we all could do to help children and others realise that they can make changes in their own life's but they have to want that change before they can make it.

CJ

 

[troutdude]

Here's some food for thought:

What would the crime rates be...without capital punishment???

 

[troutmasta]

Here's some food for thought:

What would the crime rates be...without capital punishment???

Go ask canada.
In Canada, there were 542 homicides in 2000 resulting in a national rate of 1.8 homicides per
100,000 population. By comparison, there were 15,517 homicides in the U.S., resulting in a rate
(5.5) three times higher than Canada’s.
In examining arrest/charge data, the U.S. had much higher rates for drug offences, impaired driving and prostitution.
lookin at the nine largest metropolitan areas in each country
With the exception of Boston, the remaining eight large American metropolitan areas had homicide
rates much higher than any of the nine largest Canadian metropolitan areas.
-(Canadian center for justice )-
They have no capital punishment.
That is food for thought.

 

[capblack]

ive got an idea, you steal something we cut your hand OFF. you probably wont do it again, if you do, we cut the other one OFF, then we know you wont do it again. It would cut down on prison cost for sure. The lack of actual punishment is a very big part of crime these days. were to easy on criminals, bottom line. they chose to do crime, they should pay a price other than a slap on the wrist. to many soft hearts out there. Brian

Here's some food for thought:

What would the crime rates be...without capital punishment???

 

[capblack]

so if Texas gets rid of the death penalty, crime rates will go down?:think:

Go ask canada.
In Canada, there were 542 homicides in 2000 resulting in a national rate of 1.8 homicides per
100,000 population. By comparison, there were 15,517 homicides in the U.S., resulting in a rate
(5.5) three times higher than Canada’s.
In examining arrest/charge data, the U.S. had much higher rates for drug offences, impaired driving and prostitution.
lookin at the nine largest metropolitan areas in each country
With the exception of Boston, the remaining eight large American metropolitan areas had homicide
rates much higher than any of the nine largest Canadian metropolitan areas.
-canadian center for justice 2009-
They have no capital punishment.
That is food for thought.

 

[bigdog]

Here's some food for thought:

What would the crime rates be...without capital punishment???

Ok wait in no way was I saying that we shouldn't have capital punishment. If someone rapes or kills yeah then there is reason for capital punishment for sure but people were saying we should be allowed to kill a person over stealing something. The punishment should fit the crime is what is being said here, someone that steal a boat or a car or brake in to a house or robs a store needs to get more then just some probation. If they just get a little slap on the wrist and told they were a bad person for it they are just going to go out and do it again.
I know your or at least hope your post wasn't directed at me I just wanted to make sure what I said wasn't mistaken for not wanting capital punishment. If there wasn't capital punishment then are prisons would be 10 time fuller then they are now. that brings to mind when was the last time they killed someone that is on death row? If they are on death row why do they keep them alive for so long waisting the tax payers money on housing these people for 10 20 or even more years?

CJ

 

[troutmasta]

so if Texas gets rid of the death penalty, crime rates will go down?:think:

The facts are the facts.
It must be a drag when youre emotion lies juxtaposed to logic and data.

 

[bigdog]

Troutmasta I'm sorry but not going to be able to agree or see eye to eye with you on this one. There has to be something more to the crime rate being lower in Canada then the fact that they don't have capital punishment. I would think that it partly has to do with the fact that Canada provides more for the people that live there. Everyone is provided with medical and dental helth care, they provide more for food and money fundings and do more to help the people. NO I'm not saying that is the only reason crime is lower there but for sure feel it has a good amount to do with it. Also (and I know this is going to set a few people off) they also have more stricked gun control laws. I'm not to sure what eles there is that they do that keeps the crime rate down but they must be doing something. But for sure the no capital punishment is not the reason for a lower crime rate.

CJ

 

[troutdude]

X 2 CapBlack.

And, not to beat a dead horse, cuz I am now done w/ this debate...at least on my end.

So, you want to LOOSEN the penalties even further? Now, that is what I call illogical logic. There is a weak link in your logic TroutMasta (and the facts that you stated). If I were to dig deep, I could probably find statistics from another country that are in direct contrast.

America in general is too lax on perpetrator's of crime. Just ask anyone who has had a crime committed against them, or a member of their family. All that usually happens is a slap on the wrist, and the perps are back out on the streets doing the same thing again (maybe to YOU the next time, or to someone you love). [God forbid of course].

And please don't feel like I'm personally beating you up with my opinion. I respect your stance, and your right to voice your opinion. That is what makes for useful dialog. And that is what makes this a great country. We are apparently on opposite sides of the fence. But, that doens't mean that I'm not your friend or wouldn't choose to go fishing with you.

 

[capblack]

comparing canada to the united states is like comparing apples to oranges, theres no way that loosening punishment will lower crime rates. I bet theres plenty of places with capital punishment that have a lower crime rate than canada, that means nothing.

 

[troutmasta]

If I were to dig deep, I could probably find statistics from another country that are in direct contrast.

America in general is too lax on perpetrator's of crime. Just ask anyone who has had a crime committed against them, or a member of their family. All that usually happens is a slap on the wrist, and the perps are back out on the streets doing the same thing again (maybe to YOU the next time, or to someone you love). [God forbid of course].

And please don't feel like I'm personally beating you up with my opinion. I respect your stance, and your right to voice your opinion. That is what makes for useful dialog. And that is what makes this a great country. We are apparently on opposite sides of the fence. But, that doens't mean that I'm not your friend or wouldn't choose to go fishing with you.

I challenge you to find statistics that say otherwise. I abolutley love a good debate, and am in no way personally against you. It makes a very productive dialog, and in turn a great country. Im friends with any one who makes a respectfull counter to any of my arguments.

Troutmasta I'm sorry but not going to be able to agree or see eye to eye with you on this one. There has to be something more to the crime rate being lower in Canada then the fact that they don't have capital punishment. I would think that it partly has to do with the fact that Canada provides more for the people that live there. Everyone is provided with medical and dental helth care, they provide more for food and money fundings and do more to help the people. NO I'm not saying that is the only reason crime is lower there but for sure feel it has a good amount to do with it. Also (and I know this is going to turn this set a few people off) they also have more stricked gun control laws. I'm not to sure what eles there is that they do that keeps the crime rate down but they must be doing something. But for sure the no capital punishment is not the reason for a lower crime rate.

CJ

The gun thing is huge. No handguns. Thats the big difference. They also have socialist medicine as you pointed out. Maybe if we did all three of these things there would be significant change in americas crime rates.

At Deathpenaltyinfo.org the commision on death penalty enforcment states:
Using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates the annual costs of the present (death penalty) system to be $137 million per year.

The cost of the present system with reforms recommended by the Commission to ensure a fair process would be $232.7 million per year.

The cost of a system in which the number of death-eligible crimes was significantly narrowed would be $130 million per year.

The cost of a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty would be $11.5 million per year.
We would save hundreds of millions of dollars w/ life no parole.
Its a fact.
Crime sucks. Criminals suck. We are an intelligent race and if we dismiss emotion in our thought process we could really advance as a species.
I say this all respectfully.

 

[troutmasta]

comparing canada to the united states is like comparing apples to oranges, theres no way that loosening punishment will lower crime rates. I bet theres plenty of places with capital punishment that have a lower crime rate than canada, that means nothing.

Capital punishment doesn't work this is why:
The idea of deterrence presupposes rationality and premeditation on the part of the murderer. In most murders, such factors take a backseat to nonrational influences such as rage, alcohol or drug abuse, or psychological disorder, none of which are susceptible of deterrence by death sentence. For these reasons, the most persistent and persuasive arguments for the death penalty rely on notions of just retribution and revenge by the state on behalf of the citizenry

TEN SAFEST COUNTRIES FOR MURDER (LATE-1990s) COUNTRY PER MILLION
(1) Slovenia 0.7
(2) Austria 0.9
(3) Sweden 1.8
(4) Switzerland 2.3
(5) Israel 2.3
(6) Hong Kong 2.4
(7) Norway 2.5
(8) Ireland 2.8
(9) Finland 3.7
(10) Singapore 4.3

only one practices the death penalty #10 (isreal law recognizes it but never enforces it )
benbest.com
Sometimes we americans forget that there are better ways to do things.

 

[bigdog]

I'm sorry but with what you just said I would have to say the website you got your info from is wrong. There is no way anyone can say it is cheaper to keep someone alive in prison for life then it is to kill them. Think about it you think it is cheaper to feed, house, provide medical, clothing and everything else for there whole life then to just kill them. Just because you read something online don't make it true, fact or accurate. I can spend $7 right now build a website be it end with .com .org .net or what ever and say anything I want on it but don't mean it is true or a fact. Mathematically it does not, will not and can not add up to be cheaper to keeping someone in prison for life as a posse to killing them.

CJ

 

[troutmasta]

I'm sorry but with what you just said I would have to say the website you got your info from is wrong. There is no way anyone can say it is cheaper to keep someone alive in prison for life then it is to kill them. Think about it you think it is cheaper to feed, house, provide medical, clothing and everything else for there whole life then to just kill them. Just because you read something online don't make it true, fact or accurate. I can spend $7 right now build a website be it end with .com .org .net or what ever and say anything I want on it but don't mean it is true or a fact. Mathematically it does not, will not and can not add up to be cheaper to keeping someone in prison for life as a posse to killing them.

CJ

There are thousands of websites that have the same info. Deathpenaltyinfo.org is nonpartisan non profit
Heres a study fro, Duke Universtiy. Thats a peer reviewed report held to the strictest standards of factual acurracy.

A recent Duke University study of North Carolina's death penalty costs found that the state could save $11 million a year by substituting life in prison for the death penalty. An earlier Duke study found that the state spent $2.1 million more on a death penalty case than on one seeking a life sentence.

I know it feels counter-intuitive, but its a fact. You can't argue with those. I respect all your opinions but Facts are Facts. I challenge anyone to look into it. There are thousands of sources.
I rest on that. I will not post again under this thread.
Once again Facts are Facts. Opinions are just that....opinions.

 

[eggs]

And the stoelen boat???? Cough cough.. hope they get the rest of the goods..!

 

[bigdog]

And the stoelen boat???? Cough cough.. hope they get the rest of the goods..!

:lol: No they didn't get all of it. Got the motor and some things that were in it but the boat is no where to be found.

 

[hick]

hhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm....................... you mean it was stolen after all? what a surprise!

I still agree with findin a tall tree.