Fly fishing only?

bigsteel · Dec 19, 2010

chris61182 said:
But you did call them vile and evil by insinuation, you in the same breath talk about how clean and great the deschutes is because "they" aren't allowed there but then covered your ass by claiming to be talking about bait, it's the same bs insinuation that Eastcoastborn is making, and you even do again in your post I'm responding to with the power bait reference.

It's B.S. elitism because instead of talking about difference in mortality between bait v. artificial, barbed v. non-barbed, treble v. single hook, or circle hook v. ???, you have to use lies and insinuation to demonize a group who fishes differently from you. Speaking of which, I still can't figure out how the position of the weight in reference to the lure v. line has an impact on mortality, or how using a spinning reel and casting float with a fly is some how causes greater mortality than using the weight of the line to fling the same fly out does.

Unfortunately any such discussions don't seem to fit with your desire to blame anyone who fishes differently from you as the cause of all littering and the demise of fish populations; and that is the textbook definition of elitism.

whoa there geronimo,,you are the one who quoted my comments then mixed and matched them to fit your argument,,typical for people who know there wrong...bait kills fish period,how many catch and release fishermen do you know that uses bait..i said the descutes is great cause bait is not allowed how in the hell does that have anything to do with lure fishermen,there you go again putting words in my mouth and trying to fit your argument...i NEVER said using a spinning reel with flies causes greater mortality.how about you go hang out below any hatchery or below any dam her ein oregon and you report back with all the fly fishermens mess u find there..or for that matter any bridge crossing,its disgusting...

OnTheFly · Dec 19, 2010

FishFinger said:
Wow, fair is fair, since smokers are so over taxed paying for many social programs not associated to smoking it's only fair you smelly bait fishermen pay to support fly fishing only waters.
I have to confess the temptation created by you evil bait guys did bring me to the dark side years ago. I would have been happy with the tag elite, but after hanging with true fly fishing elites it made want to puke.

I don't want fly only waters opened to bait, can you imagine my level of contempt were I to see garden hackle out producing my actual hackle!

Oh the humanity or lack there of............. So I do what I can, when I bait fish I leave a trail of trash and debris, when I fly fish I don't, I do have a image to maintain, don't ya know!

(in case something is lost in the translation here, for the record I am being totally sarcastic)

:lol:

brandon4455 · Dec 19, 2010

bigsteel said:
whoa there geronimo,,you are the one who quoted my comments then mixed and matched them to fit your argument,,typical for people who know there wrong...bait kills fish period,how many catch and release fishermen do you know that uses bait..i said the descutes is great cause bait is not allowed how in the hell does that have anything to do with lure fishermen,there you go again putting words in my mouth and trying to fit your argument...i NEVER said using a spinning reel with flies causes greater mortality.how about you go hang out below any hatchery or below any dam her ein oregon and you report back with all the fly fishermens mess u find there..or for that matter any bridge crossing,its disgusting...

HAHAHAHA. your right, ive never seen someone who uses roe or shrimp and does c&r

chris61182 · Dec 19, 2010

bigsteel said:
whoa there geronimo,,you are the one who quoted my comments then mixed and matched them to fit your argument,,typical for people who know there wrong...

Being the person who wrote your posts, I'm surprised you'd think I did that. I retained the order and context just fine, I broke it apart to reply to the separate thoughts.

bait kills fish period,how many catch and release fishermen do you know that uses bait..i said the descutes is great cause bait is not allowed how in the hell does that have anything to do with lure fishermen,there you go again putting words in my mouth and trying to fit your argument...i NEVER said using a spinning reel with flies causes greater mortality.

But that's the thing, you don't have to when you lump everyone who's different into 'gear' fishermen. Then you can slander by insinuation till the cows come home. My point all along has been to break the different groups apart and treat them uniquely.

We can look at your post that set this off again if you'd like...

I'll even avoid addressing them inline too, in your first paragraph you talk about how now allowing "them" on fly only waters is the reason it's so great. Your second paragraph holds the Deschutes up as one of those waters. Except that it's not fly only, and you now here conflate bait with all non-fly fishing.

heres my take on it,go to any piece of water that is fly only,and i have many times.no styrafoam bait containers,no wads of mono line in every tree,no lure or jig packages thrown along the ground,its the cleanest stretch of the river hands down.fly guys are just different,we dont like combat fishing we dont like standing arm to arm with everyone and there mother right below every dam in oregon.we dont fish to fill our tags,99.9% of fly fishermen are catch and release.fly fishermen believe in native,wild fish.using flies compared to a spinner with a huge treble hook is far more safe for a fish,and has been proven.

Just take the deschutes for instance,right now they have over 3,000 redsides per river mile,,now open that up to bait and you can kiss off that fish population.\

So yes, after I pointed it out, you have to stick with this idea that you were only talking about bait all along, but that wasn't what you were initially talking about at all.

chris61182 · Dec 19, 2010

FishFinger said:
Wow, fair is fair, since smokers are so over taxed paying for many social programs not associated to smoking it's only fair you smelly bait fishermen pay to support fly fishing only waters.

Actually the irony is that they are helping pay for it, before every trip when they pick up that fresh container of worms or powerbait, I believe they're paying a Federal excise tax for the "Sport Fish Restoration Act."

Not that I want to see bait on fly only waters either, I would prefer if ODFW instead of catering to elitist pricks would simply manage those waters for limiting mortality.

chris61182 · Dec 19, 2010

The problem with that is, while it's not in my backyard, it's in someone's backyard. Someone is being kicked off a piece of public land, not because they are causing harm (basis for bait bans), but because someone else doesn't like that they do it differently.

Click to expand...

You missed my point. Do you think all wild trout water should be open for bait and treble hooks?

Talk about missing the point, I already addressed your question in what you replied to.

So those posts intentionally conflating lure fishermen with bait fishermen in order to blame them for litter and declining fish populations was what?

Click to expand...

Yeah...some of the comments got out of hand but I think you know what the truth is.

Yes, I know the truth is that the unwashed masses don't have the same respect for the fish or the resources as you and I do. But it is hubris to believe that by virtue of waving a bug wand one suddenly is not a member of the unwashed masses and that anyone who doesn't wave a bug wand must be part of the unwashed masses.

They absolutely can co-exist, the only thing causing friction is hubris.

Click to expand...

Hubris? Out of touch with reality? You missed the point again. It's more like education.

Yes the unwashed masses need education on how to better treat our resources, but like Drew pointed out they're almost certainly not here on this forum. The fly fishermen also need to learn that there are other forms of fishing that aren't bad and evil. No one is requesting they toss a spinner instead of a streamer, but if they understood the lack of differences it would make a world of difference when they don't stick their noses up in disgust at that dirty bait fishermen using his spinner.

OnTheFly · Dec 19, 2010

Chris, I'm giving up on you man. You seem to have a vendetta against fly fishermen. I'm sorry you feel this way.

chris61182 · Dec 19, 2010

Far from it, but when they keep making it perfectly clear they have a great disdain for anyone who's not just like them, yeah, I don't tend to like those ones.

Why is it so hard for fly fishermen to not lump every other angler who doesn't fly fish with bait fishermen because that's all you guys keep bringing it back to? You yourself have avoided that a number of times already...

chris61182 said:
OnTheFly said:

chris61182 said:

The problem with that is, while it's not in my backyard, it's in someone's backyard. Someone is being kicked off a piece of public land, not because they are causing harm (basis for bait bans), but because someone else doesn't like that they do it differently.

Click to expand...

You missed my point. Do you think all wild trout water should be open for bait and treble hooks?

Click to expand...

Talk about missing the point, I already addressed your question in what you replied to.

OnTheFly said:
You seem to have a vendetta against fly fishermen.

So far every last argument against lure fishing somehow is brought back to those damn evil bait fishermen! And when you get called on it you insist I have the vendetta.

OnTheFly · Dec 19, 2010

Chris I think you are confused and obtuse.

chris61182 · Dec 19, 2010

OnTheFly said:
Chris I think you are confused and obtuse.

So you're going to continue with the ad hominem instead of realizing that you yourself are partaking in the narrative that everyone who doesn't fly fish must be a bait fishermen?

Look at the bold underlined parts in my previous post.

I explicitly dealt with the issue of bait.
You ask an explicitly contradictory question as if it logically followed.
I direct you back to my explicitly dealing with it.
You reply with an ad hominem, which you continued making more of.

Fly fishing only?

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