Fall Chinook return predicted to be fifth largest since 1948

[SemperFly]

they typicaly get the state and the kind of fish right... otherwise its the old dart at a dartboard acuracy level, not bad for all the biology majors who were too stoned at university of montana to make it to class-

There are far too many factors influencing actual return of fish for them to make any scientifically grounded estimates. Short of tagging every flipping fish that exits the gate, they have no accurate method to make such a claim. Mark-recapture on the scale they are operating isn't sufficient. ODFW is a political institution that happens to employ some scientists when it should be a scientific institution that spends its time advising politicians. Not all Biology majors were skipping class to get stoned, but I can only speak for myself in this department.

 

[imfishing]

just go to change your password then type a bunch of letters in and you wont be able to get into your account,,but my guess is you like arguing back and forth so youll stay around

Holy Smokes...I never thought of that...And I'm a computer guy...How Sheeply of me...

Well As This Is My Last Post On This Most Awesome Sounding Board...To All Good Night.....Don't Think It Hasn't Been Fun...

 

[Halfthrive]

There are far too many factors influencing actual return of fish for them to make any scientifically grounded estimates. Short of tagging every flipping fish that exits the gate, they have no accurate method to make such a claim. Mark-recapture on the scale they are operating isn't sufficient. ODFW is a political institution that happens to employ some scientists when it should be a scientific institution that spends its time advising politicians. Not all Biology majors were skipping class to get stoned, but I can only speak for myself in this department.

Nailed it. The Corps of Engineers fish biologist left the odfw for the very reason your stating, to political, he felt that with the corp he had a better chance of helping our fish. Since then he's become the main guy behind the Willamette BIOP.

 

[Bad Tuna]

When I was handed my degree and started getting into ODFW I saw how political it was, and how the native nazis had started taking over. I chalked it up as a lesson in life and walked away. No reason to work with those idiots. Best decision I ever maid.

 

[autofisher]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that there's all sorts of proof out on the interenet reguarding the dealings and quality of the ODFW........ However there aren't so many posts on the internet that say that the bait sales are slumping and boat sales are on the decline........ nobody's saying give us a presentation....... this isn't the place for your senior project.......I think what beaverfan is saying about the proof...... is that more than likely those are imfishing's own personal theories and nothing has been confirmed whereas the statements about ODFW made by beaverfan have been confirmed by various reports on the internet in comparison to most of the other hatchery programs in the country.


Oh yeah..... Just sayin.

 

[plumb2fish]

How many other states besides Oregon have hatchery salmonid programs....4? Idaho does a pretty decent job given what they have to deal with ... and being better than Washington or California don't count....So that would make ODFW pretty close to the bottom of the barrel.....
Unfortunately ODFW is a government agency. That does not mean that the "employees" of the agency are bad. The "management" is controlled by special interests, that is the problem. Unfortunately the "employees" have their hands tied and can only do what they are told to do. It's all about the $.....not the fish or wildlife

 

[crusty old fisherman]

the simple fact is that odfw follows rules mandated by politicians. they do things to protect that fish that decreases tourist profits to small towns and the small towns cry to their elected officials. the officials gripe at odfw to bring in more tourist dollars to small communities or they wont vote for special programs or budget increases. thats the facts of it in a nut shell until the state gets sued to make ODFW a seperate entity not swayed by politics we have to live with it, even then we would have to deal with internal politics.

each section of a zone is ran by a different head biologist the one from newport south to the umpqua river hates hatchery fish so out of 13 rivers they used to plant with hatchery steelhead we now have 3 left with plants and all the money saved went into hiring more administrative people not field workers .

I kind of thought the CCA would fix some of this stuff by pressuring them but I guess they dont do squat just like all the groups that came before them.

 

[bigsteel]

the simple fact is that odfw follows rules mandated by politicians. they do things to protect that fish that decreases tourist profits to small towns and the small towns cry to their elected officials. the officials gripe at odfw to bring in more tourist dollars to small communities or they wont vote for special programs or budget increases. thats the facts of it in a nut shell until the state gets sued to make ODFW a seperate entity not swayed by politics we have to live with it, even then we would have to deal with internal politics.

each section of a zone is ran by a different head biologist the one from newport south to the umpqua river hates hatchery fish so out of 13 rivers they used to plant with hatchery steelhead we now have 3 left with plants and all the money saved went into hiring more administrative people not field workers .

I kind of thought the CCA would fix some of this stuff by pressuring them but I guess they dont do squat just like all the groups that came before them.

the umpqua has one of the largest returning natives fish runs,why would u want to have hatchery fish in that river?and your right CCA is a joke,has always been,if it doesn't involve gillnets or more harvesting opprotunities for an angler then they dont care.

 

[crusty old fisherman]

sorry to inform you there has been hatchery summer and winter steelhead plus spring chinook and hatchery coho in that river for well over 50 years lol

fortunately the umpqua is in a different biologists area to over see the smith north to newport is the rivers that were stripped of hatchery fish


Crusty

 

[bigsteel]

sorry to inform you there has been hatchery summer and winter steelhead plus spring chinook and hatchery coho in that river for well over 50 years lol

fortunately the umpqua is in a different biologists area to over see the smith north to newport is the rivers that were stripped of hatchery fish


Crusty

yes i know there are hatchery fish in that river,my? is why with such a strong native run?i guess you dont read the complete posts lol

exactly how many rivers do you want hatchery fish in?
sounds like the rivers you are fishing have plenty of native fish,you just seem upset that u can't harvest them?

 

[metalfisher76]

IMFISHING---Beaverfans Dad/Uncle something or other relation is retired from O'stupid and his feeling gets hurt if you say anything bad about them. As far as being the number 3 state agency in the us...Pass what ever you are smoking over here BRO!..No need to bogart. A mear year and a half ago ODFW was given a mandate by the federal govt. to get thier poop in a group or be taken over by the federal govt.

Anyone want to dispute that?...You can't its a fact. ODFW has now started "padding" thier numbers to show that they are back on track....nothing could be further from the truth. The following is a link to last years final tally on the springer run....ODFW Willamette Falls Fish Passage Fish Counts Go to August 15 2010...65,293 springers over willamette falls...total tally for the willamette run...110,536. According to the guys at the hatcheries on the clack and EC no where near that number of fish went into the clackamas. Everyone would have been walking limits to thier freezer daily.....Jay have fun with the shocking conclusion....ODFW LIES!!!!

Uhem,cough, whoaa????lmaoeven! We were!!!!!
Which one was lying? I`m not saying they won`t/don`t, been privy 1st hand.
Since the hatchery @ Ec is not taking those fish, what possible reason would they have for telling you this?(this is why i ask which one was lying to ya?) About 5000 springers went over Caz. Surely that #, the catch #, and a few others (including the EC thousands) added up to the total of your conspiracy theory. I just LOVE the way the word fact gets tossed around here by opinionated folk.

 

[crusty old fisherman]

there are not plenty of native fish they are barely making the broodstock program. the numbers go up and down every year because of the dwindeling numbers of returning wild fish that they are allowed to take.

at one time the siuslaw river recieved 85k in the main stem 40k in lake creek 15k in indian creek and 15k in deadwood creek with an additional 15 k dropped into the north fork of the siuslaw.

there were also additional test groups dumped every year above and beyond each of those numbers i stated above.

now the numbers are siuslaw 50k to 65k depending on if they have enough wild fish to make the brood stock smolts, 10k dumped into lake creek, 0 on indian creek, 0 on deadwood creek and, 0 on the north fork of the siuslaw. all the while the wild fish numbers are continuing to drop removing those hatchery fish did nothing to help the wild fish in this river it was just a boon doggle to free up money so bob buckman did not have to lay off office employees. he in effect ripped off every single holder of a salmon and steelhead tag that fishes those rivers.

we have one field biologist for the area from the alsea to the smith river and almost everything is done by volunteers even the raising of the smolts is done by the school kids in florence and step volunteers. where did all the money go? surely not to the tax payers so they have something to show for their money they spent on licences.

the south valley and central coast gets robbed every time we turn around they took all the coastal hatchery plants and 2 yrs ago they tried to take 2 million of our hatchery springer smolts and give them to the gill netters my suspision is that even though they said publically they decided not to that it happend behind closed doors and we lost them anyway

and to answer your question why not have them in the river? they were there for 50 plus years they should dump the heck out of the hatchery fish so people have something to catch i mean seriously we give them one heck of a lot of money would you rather have no fish that you can bring home at all and still pay the price you do to be able to fish? I doubt it unless your an alfalfa sprou eating hippy of a mis guided yuppie that only fish's because its the cool thing to do.

 

[bigsteel]

there are not plenty of native fish they are barely making the broodstock program. the numbers go up and down every year because of the dwindeling numbers of returning wild fish that they are allowed to take.

at one time the siuslaw river recieved 85k in the main stem 40k in lake creek 15k in indian creek and 15k in deadwood creek with an additional 15 k dropped into the north fork of the siuslaw.

there were also additional test groups dumped every year above and beyond each of those numbers i stated above.

now the numbers are siuslaw 50k to 65k depending on if they have enough wild fish to make the brood stock smolts, 10k dumped into lake creek, 0 on indian creek, 0 on deadwood creek and, 0 on the north fork of the siuslaw. all the while the wild fish numbers are continuing to drop removing those hatchery fish did nothing to help the wild fish in this river it was just a boon doggle to free up money so bob buckman did not have to lay off office employees. he in effect ripped off every single holder of a salmon and steelhead tag that fishes those rivers.

we have one field biologist for the area from the alsea to the smith river and almost everything is done by volunteers even the raising of the smolts is done by the school kids in florence and step volunteers. where did all the money go? surely not to the tax payers so they have something to show for their money they spent on licences.

the south valley and central coast gets robbed every time we turn around they took all the coastal hatchery plants and 2 yrs ago they tried to take 2 million of our hatchery springer smolts and give them to the gill netters my suspision is that even though they said publically they decided not to that it happend behind closed doors and we lost them anyway

and to answer your question why not have them in the river? they were there for 50 plus years they should dump the heck out of the hatchery fish so people have something to catch i mean seriously we give them one heck of a lot of money would you rather have no fish that you can bring home at all and still pay the price you do to be able to fish? I doubt it unless your an alfalfa sprou eating hippy of a mis guided yuppie that only fish's because its the cool thing to do.

I would rather have a healthy run of native fish then dinner to bring home YES.
what are you going to do when there is no natives left for your broodstock eggs?

sounds like you could care less about native fish unless if affects the broodstock program,which tells me all you are worried about is HARVESTABLE NUMBERS.

the whole sky is falling BS is hilarious,you are equating fishing to be able to harvest something.you make it sound like everyone is gonna give up fishing because there isn't hatchery fish.
can u show me the study you are stating?

why do you think there are gillnetters?they are there because they can harvest HATCHERY FISH,do you think there gonna dump millions of those fish in the river for sportsmen alone?all it does it give gillnetters more fish to net.if they were native there would be nothing for them to net being as the natives are ESA listed endangered..

If you want to save money why not buy your fish at the store?


i agree our money is grossly mismanaged.

 

[metalfisher76]

The answer: Both! duh! dude....
#`s are as cued from one source tom the next, no doubt about it. How many springers spawn/die in the lower Clack? LOTS. The hatchery guys never see `em. Are they paddin? Prolly, but with a way to back it up, I promise ya. May be a complete crock, but it is what it is...
o um period

 

[SemperFly]

The fact that the fishery is operating under a court-ordered management plan from 2008-2017 as a result of US v. Oregon should put to rest any arguments about how well they are doing.

 

[metalfisher76]

Right...you believe half the lies... my point exactly

 

[bigsteel]

..................

 

[crusty old fisherman]

bigstl I would be willing to bet I have been releasing wild fish since before you ever cought your first steelhead. I have never kept a wild steelhead in my life and never will, so I have no issue with not being able to kill a wild fish. my point was that the wild numbers are not increasing and the brood stock program isn't helping at all its actually lowering the numbers of wild fish that are returning to spawn.

I think the brood stock program is a wasted effort there has been hatchery fish dumped in these rivers for 60 years the odds of having true native genes are slim to zero.

I would must rather see it back like it used to be plain old hatchery fish not broodstock its a waste to kill the wild adults to make hatchery fish. the old hatchery fish had an earlier run timing so they didn't intermingle as much as the broodstock fish do.

I am in no way shape or form anti wild fish!!! I am anti targeting of wild fish! if you can't keep them they should be left alone frankly I equate you going and targeting a wild fish to me casting spinners at my neighbors poodle. there is no difference except you can't hear the fish squeeling and you wouldnt get thrown in jail over it. fish feel pain and build up lactic acid that cause sever muscle atrophy. catchig a fish and dispatching it quickly is far more humane then returning it to the river with spazaming muscles.

as for your remarks about the gillnetters and if they would release fish for the sportsman you are incorrect I suggest you go read the deal that was signed with the people of oregon to build the dams in this state it saysany fish loss will be mitigated so the people of oregon do not lose any resources and another place you might look is the cessation papers signed when oregon was made a state it says the waters the lands the oceans and all the fish and animals therein are ceded to the people of the state of oregon it doesn't say they are ceded to the gill netters or the commercial fishermen it says the people of the state that means you and I so you are incorrect in assuming they would stop planting fish they hav to by law.