ODFW lawsuit

[mosd]

funny.. the caddis fly shop and steam boaters are suing odfw for releasing hatchery spring chinook into the mckenzie cause they are interbreeding with the native salmon but no where, i mean NO WHERE.. do you see them suing odfw over the excessive dumping of hatchery rainbows into leaburg lake, after all wouldnt you think the hatchery rainbow INTERBREED with the famous mckenzie redside rainbows but no where do you see a lawsuit there, funny all the times i fish for springers ive never never seen a fly flosser fishing for springers, just another way to take over a river system, my 2 cents!

 

[Raincatcher]

This should be interesting. I'm sure it will spark some lively debates. Please keep us posted.

 

[Irishrover]

I'm going to stay on the lighter side of this and just say..........I think it is immoral for fish to jump into the reed with any ol' buck or hen. What would mother say. Formal introductions should be required!

 

[eugene1]

no where, i mean NO WHERE.. do you see them suing odfw over the excessive dumping of hatchery rainbows into leaburg lake, after all wouldnt you think the hatchery rainbow INTERBREED with the famous mckenzie redside rainbows but no where do you see a lawsuit there

Well trout stocking the Mac looks to be on their agenda, mosd...

 

[Big3d]

Well said! I find myself confused as to why a fly shop would be against more fish, meaning more business. Smart, stupid, sustainable or not. Seems like in their case more fish means more business regardless of the ramifications to the wild stock. I hold no official stance on the hatchery/wild interbreeding and whatnot, just seems like they are suing against their own business interests.

 

[brandon4455]

have you guys read the McKenzie river trout study? it is a very interesting non biased study on the section of river that was previously stocked with trout, and is now wild only.The goal of the study was to see what would happen if hatchery trout and bait were eliminated and if it would help or not. it is incredible to see what has happened the past few years to the numbers of wild redsides in that section. Take it for what you will, but the elimination of hatchery fish and bait fishing has done a great deal to help these fish.


now the spring chinook, this is a touchy subject. because so many people buy licenses for the sole purpose of harvesting salmon and steelhead that is odfw's main goal is to produce fish for harvest so they get their money, despite the fact that their mission statement says otherwise.

we are coming up on a time in our economy where odfw is struggling,habitat is shrinking,and fish are vanishing.We need hatchery fish to help supplement the loss of our wild fish, but heres the thing, It's obviously going to reach a point where year stocking of thousands of salmon and steelhead will cease due to budget issues. Imo odfw needs to find a way to make things work for them to save money and time. Habitat restoration and boosting native runs on the few rivers that have them left, and the rivers that are void of fish,stock the hell out of them and restore that habitat too, and let those hatchery spawn in those rivers. Could make hatchery fish wild,just like the upper willamette coho,which have been a huge success the past few years after habitat restoration and fish passage programs. it created a whole new fishery.


bottom line is, i don't think the mckenzie is going to be one of those hatchery fish rivers. because it is a special one.


just my 2 cents. sure it will ruffle some feathers but just trying to keep an open mind and give a different view.


that fly flosser comment made me laugh,because every time i see a debate on hatchery versus wild someone gets mad and always points fingers at the fly guys. to me i look at it as some people don't fully understand fish or polotics and are mad so they look for someone to point a finger at and it's always the fly guys.

it's a flat out witch hunt.

 

[OnTheDrop]

The McKenzie should have absolutely no stocked trout in it...Who in there right mind would pay money to fly fish for stocked trout on that beautiful river.

Salmon, eh, I could care less.

 

[fishingduck]

"It's Business not Personal" Having to deal with the fed, state and local regs on a daily basis in my humble opinion people either do not have the big picture information on the water management plan or are emotionally biased. To keep this post short here is my layman term summary: The McKenzie (all rivers in Oregon) cannot sustain the number of native fish to equal the demand of the people who fish it. People stop catching fish they stop fishing and they bring in millions upon millions of dollars to this community.

So if individuals want to eliminate the stocking of hatchery fish on parts of the river, I would be happy to do that....all they have to do is give me the 467 million dollars that I need to keep the boat landings, stream restoration, habitat management, roads, flood plane, dam safety, river quality and the thousand of other things that are done so that people can drive their cars up river launch their boats and access the whole river.

It's not the response I want to share but it's reality and it's not "Personal it's Business". So the next time you see those people fishing for hatchery fish thank them on your way to the non-hatchery section, because they are paying for your ability to access that section of river.

 

[JimBob]

I'm pretty sure all the truck trout are sterile. Most of them are so dumb that they are caught quite quickly anyway. Keep the stockers in the river please, I like walking across the street to catch a limit.

 

[eugene1]

fishingduck,

don't forget that the corps pays most of the bills in in the Willy valley due to mitigation money.

It's a balancing act for sure when it comes to $$.

Best,

"It's Business not Personal" Having to deal with the fed, state and local regs on a daily basis in my humble opinion people either do not have the big picture information on the water management plan or are emotionally biased. To keep this post short here is my layman term summary: The McKenzie (all rivers in Oregon) cannot sustain the number of native fish to equal the demand of the people who fish it. People stop catching fish they stop fishing and they bring in millions upon millions of dollars to this community.

So if individuals want to eliminate the stocking of hatchery fish on parts of the river, I would be happy to do that....all they have to do is give me the 467 million dollars that I need to keep the boat landings, stream restoration, habitat management, roads, flood plane, dam safety, river quality and the thousand of other things that are done so that people can drive their cars up river launch their boats and access the whole river.

It's not the response I want to share but it's reality and it's not "Personal it's Business". So the next time you see those people fishing for hatchery fish thank them on your way to the non-hatchery section, because they are paying for your ability to access that section of river.

 

[brandon4455]

I'm pretty sure all the truck trout are sterile. Most of them are so dumb that they are caught quite quickly anyway. Keep the stockers in the river please, I like walking across the street to catch a limit.

This graph below shows what happens to a section of the mckenzie when bait fishing and stocker trout are removed.The evidence speaks for itself. I'm not sure if the fish are "sterile" or not,but they still do have an impact on the native fish. Wouldn't you rather have more trout,bigger trout,and better trout across the street? The only positive thing we get from stocker trout is the bull trout like to eat them.

 

[jamisonace]

I'll be fly flossing for springers on the mckenzie this Friday but I have no desire to see hatchery fish eliminated. Joking of course about flossing...I like to snag them in the tail.

In all seriousness though, it's tough but they can be enticed to bite a fly. I've had it happen a couple times.

 

[Irishrover]

I'll be fly flossing for springers on the mckenzie this Friday but I have no desire to see hatchery fish eliminated. Joking of course about flossing...I like to snag them in the tail.

In all seriousness though, it's tough but they can be enticed to bite a fly. I've had it happen a couple times.

The best place to hook them is right in front of the dorsal fin. That way they can really get there shoulders into the run!:lol:

 

[Raincatcher]

Hmmm, straying from the intended topic...focus now...

 

[rogerdodger]

This graph below shows what happens to a section of the mckenzie when bait fishing and stocker trout are removed.

this data certainly makes sense and might be expected just due to reduced harm to natives from fishing (bait and otherwise)...

with the change, was there any data collected on the overall fishing pressure? this data would be a real home run if it came with an increase in non-bait fishing on that stretch...

interesting data would be what happens if you keep the stocker trout situation exactly the same and change to non-bait fishing only, might the same increase in natives occur?

I guess what I am wondering is which factor is stonger: removing the stocker trout or eliminating bait fishing...?

..great discussion on this from all sides...cheers, roger

 

[mosd]

Honestly I don't have a problem with them getting rid of the bait completely cause god knows how many native redsides I've hooked using sandshrimp but good ole native society peeps say the native redsides don't like sandshrimp. . I call total bs.. but back to the subject.. I can bet there won't be a native springer population in the mckenzie in 15-20 years if they abandon the hatchery program... Think about it.. where do they get there hatchery fish from? Grown in a lab?... or native fish

 

[troutmasta]

I love salmon.

Everyone uses the same water for different intrests. Yes there may be interbreeding. There will still be plenty of strong nates, plenty of straght hatchery fish, and maybe some kids of the two. Lets fish it.

 

[datsunwhacko]

Honestly I don't have a problem with them getting rid of the bait completely cause god knows how many native redsides I've hooked using sandshrimp but good ole native society peeps say the native redsides don't like sandshrimp. . I call total bs.. but back to the subject.. I can bet there won't be a native springer population in the mckenzie in 15-20 years if they abandon the hatchery program... Think about it.. where do they get there hatchery fish from? Grown in a lab?... or native fish

Whatever you put on a normal hook should be allowed. The smart fish will watch it go right by. Survival of the fitest. Put that DuPont spinner back in your tackle box...that is cheatin'!