I'v had it!!!

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skunk

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This post is for all newb fisherpeople, and veterans who may have forgotten. I lost my second nook of the yr, (hope I hook up again) to leader issues. Very frusturating to hook and fight one only to loose it due to idiot operator error. So tonight, I sat down and retied all my hooks with extra attention to the egg loops, leader size, and leader condition. I guess with these big boys, little issues become big issues fast. So.....don't be like me, check that stuff before hand so you come home a hero, not empty handed. :(
 
brandon4455

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This post is for all newb fisherpeople, and veterans who may have forgotten. I lost my second nook of the yr, (hope I hook up again) to leader issues. Very frusturating to hook and fight one only to loose it due to idiot operator error. So tonight, I sat down and retied all my hooks with extra attention to the egg loops, leader size, and leader condition. I guess with these big boys, little issues become big issues fast. So.....don't be like me, check that stuff before hand so you come home a hero, not empty handed. :(

ive had this happen many of times.Last year while fishing for early fall nooks in the deeper holes on the salmon river i managed to hook up in a spot where most eaarly fish tend to hold. the fish took off and snapped my line.. i was new to braid and i didn't tie the right kind of knot.. made me mad.. the fish was pushing 35lbs atleast. would have beat my previous record. also the drag on my reel kept freezing up which led to to much tensiton. since then i always re check my knots here and there and une my drag..hoping i wont lose a fish that big again. i feel your pain bud.
 
troutdude

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What is the strength rating for your leaders? Bigger/thicker/heavier duty is better, because those fish have teeth (not to mention their brute force). I use much heftier leader than I do main line, for nooks.
 
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SantiamDrifter

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I obsess over my line and knots. I wont fish a line that has any nick's or line burns. I constantly check my hooks for sharpness too. Its all in the details. Why spend your time fishing only to lose you fish too bad line and hooks?
 
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JeannaJigs

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I obsess over my line and knots. I wont fish a line that has any nick's or line burns. I constantly check my hooks for sharpness too. Its all in the details. Why spend your time fishing only to lose you fish too bad line and hooks?

Ditto. Hard lesson learned this winter...laziness when it comes to details results in epic disaster. Repeatedly. Until you get it right. 12 lost fish later...I'm all about the deets.
 
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GoldFishSlayer

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ever read the old man and the sea? great book about the struggles of those that got away I think its what keeps us all coming back to the river that feeling you get when you lose a fish is absolutely defeating but when you land one its absolute victory I have always had a love hate relationship with fishing I love to fish I just hate what it does to my mind sometimes. All that being said I am absolutely insane when it comes to checking my line and reel and rod out I physically am not able to cast if I know there is a knick or something in my line rod or reel that could keep me from a fish I believe that kind of mind set can only come with losing some though...
 
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skunk

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I obsess over my line and knots. I wont fish a line that has any nick's or line burns. I constantly check my hooks for sharpness too. Its all in the details. Why spend your time fishing only to lose you fish too bad line and hooks?

Thanks for the ideas all, so I was using 10 and 12 lb leaders as I was targeting steel and not expecting chinook. Now I'm wondering what size to use since I've been hooking the bigger guys. I just got done making up a bunch at 20lb leaders. The only chinook I've caught have been with guides and they used 50lb braid main and I don't know what size leader. I have 20lb main and 20lb leaders now. sound ok, or higher main?
 
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JeannaJigs

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I use 15# p-line cxx mainline and 12# p-line cxx for leader for upriver springers with no trouble. trolling I use heavier gear which requires heavier line...but that's a whole different game.
 
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GDBrown

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Leader size

Leader size

The guides I've fished with on the coast for fall nooks all used 50# leaders. Their reasoning was this: "My clients want the fish in the boat! With 50# leaders they can fight it for an hour and it won't chew through the leader." So maybe 30-40# is no out of line for Springers. I always use at least 30# for any Chinook fishing.
 
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RunWithSasquatch

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Thanks for the ideas all, so I was using 10 and 12 lb leaders as I was targeting steel and not expecting chinook. Now I'm wondering what size to use since I've been hooking the bigger guys. I just got done making up a bunch at 20lb leaders. The only chinook I've caught have been with guides and they used 50lb braid main and I don't know what size leader. I have 20lb main and 20lb leaders now. sound ok, or higher main?

I use braid on all my rods, so intern I use a light drag because there is not shock in the braid, and is easy to pop your leaders. Even with that, when I springer fish the Nestucca, we use 12-15lb leaders, depending on if we're plugging or drifting, I think even 10lb leader is good enough. Its my understanding that for chinook in general, they're not leader shy, so 20lb will work, I dont like going that heavy when steelhead are around, I feel like i wright them out of the equation with the heavy leaders, unless its on a plug. My game is start with a light drag, and work up, you can land big fish on light drags, they aint goin anywhere.
 
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FishFiddle

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OK. So another can of worms, what about Fluorocarbon? I have lost several Steelhead the last couple months on this stuff and you can see where the knot stressed and broke, cause a portion of the knot kink comes back on the end of the line. I have been using 10# in the 100% Seag.... brand. At this point I am going to the Ultra Green. Any comments? This has probably been hashed before. Doc
 
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GDBrown

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OK. So another can of worms, what about Fluorocarbon? I have lost several Steelhead the last couple months on this stuff and you can see where the knot stressed and broke, cause a portion of the knot kink comes back on the end of the line. I have been using 10# in the 100% Seag.... brand. At this point I am going to the Ultra Green. Any comments? This has probably been hashed before. Doc

Most of us have gone back to mono after trying Fluorocarbon but the reason most knots are failing is because we tie them to quickly! You need to cinch the knot as slowly as possible with plenty of spit on it. The closer you get to pulling it tight the slower you need to be. I only use it now when I want my leader to sink and I'm not using it that often any more. We the leader spool is empty I won't be getting any more.
 
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RunWithSasquatch

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I had my bout with flouro, and didn't recieve any benefits but loosing fish. Seagur especially, I found it fished a complete line size under what it said it was, and a few bumps on a rock, and knots, everything added to compromised line. Wont use it again. I use UG for everything, every water condition, and fish get fooled just the same.
 
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JeannaJigs

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I used flouro or a bit...hate it. Too brittle. Fish aren't THAT line shy, if it's clear water and I'm chasing steelhead, during the summer I'll drop down to 8#. Thats as low as I go. Although I got a 12' rod so will probably drop down to 6# this summer if necessary....but that's steelhead, and I run braid mainline for everything except drift fishing or throwing spinners for springers. But never heavier than 20#. no need to horse.
 
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RunWithSasquatch

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Heres some very good information from a post on Ifish, a few months back.


Posters name Vhawk


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A Home Test of '10 pound test' Monofilament and Mono Hybrid Fishing lines For Breaking Strength, and Retained Strength Post-Failure.



ABSTRACT


This line study was done in order to compare the relative strength of nylon, and nylon hybrid fishing lines; As well as the capacity of those lines to retain strength after being stretched to failure. The experiment involved tying each end of a 36 inch section of line, rated as "10 pound test", to an 8/0 trolling hook, using a Palomar knot, one hook was attached to a static point, the other hook was attached to a hand held/hand pulled digital scale. Lines were pulled until failure, highest recorded weight prior to line failure was recorded. Test repeated with longest sample of failed line in order to test retained strength. Test was repeated 5 times per line, with lowest result being tossed out. In general, lines with larger diameters, were able to tolerate greater tension. Initial diameters had no effect on retained strength. Although not objectively measured, fluorocarbon/mono hybrid lines seemed to have the least amount of stretch, and the lower diameter lines seemed to have the greatest amount of stretch. Further experiments should include improving the mechanism by which tension is applied to the lines, increases in number of tests in order to a more accurate overall result, and measurement of elasticity.


INTRODUCTION

These tests were conducted to provide some objective data to compare some of the multitude of fishing lines available to the modern angler. Although other consumptive outdoor activities are rigorous in the testing of their equipment, i.e. self loading hunters, bowhunters, there is little nonbiased information available comparing equivalent pound test lines. This experiment provides as starting point for both data collection, as well as a starting point for development of a methodology that is affordable, and of practical use in a private home, or garage.

METHODS

Materials:

20 foot sections of line, marked as "10 pound test", were obtained from Verles Marine Supply in Shelton (Tell them thanks), and Sportsmen Warehouse in Lacey. A new Lymann stainless steel dial caliper, 0.001" was used to measure line diameters. A new Rapala hand held digital scale, 50 pound capacity was used to measure tensions. 2 double 8/0 stainless steel trolling hooks were used to attach the tag ends of the line. Generic distilled water was used to soak lines prior to testing.


Procedure:

36 inch section of lines were measured by caliper for actual diameter at each tag end, and center of segment. Results were averaged for reported result. The lines were then individually soaked for 45 minutes in distilled water. Distilled water being used to avoid problems with cholorine affecting the lines. Lines were then tied using a Palomar knot as shown in Practical Fishing Knots II to each of the hooks. One hook was attached to a chair leg, the other was attached to the hook on the scale. The scale was then pulled, rate of tension was increased by about one pound for each 3 second count, constant observation of meter was made until line broke. Highest reading was recorded. Longest section of line was retrieved, 4 inches off broken tag end was clipped, line retied to hook, and procedure repeated. This was done 5 times for each line. Lowest result dropped.
 
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RunWithSasquatch

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RESULTS


In order to compare relative strength of lines with different diameters, the average breaking strength in pounds for each line was divided by line diameter, and that result was divided again by 1000. The result is a number representing line strength in pounds for each 1/1000th of an inch.

The percentage represents how much strength the line retained after it was pulled to breaking point.

"10 pound Test"......Lbs per 0.001"................Lbs per 0.001
..........................Fresh Line.....................Fatigued Line

P Line Xtra....................1.23...................... ..1.22......98%
Stren xtra.....................1.17..................... ...1.06......90%
Sufix Elite.....................1.12.................... ....0.94......84%
P Line Floroclear..............1.05...................... .1.04.......99%
Maxima Cham.................1.00........................0 .56.......56%
Trilene Big Game HiVis.......1.05.......................0.85....... 84%
Stren Magnathin...............0.97...................... .0.77.......79%
Yozuri Clear....................0.95..................... ..0.85.......89%
Izorline xxx HiVis Copolymer.0.94......................0.76........81 %
Maxima UG....................0.93.......................0 .64........70%
Maxima HiVis..................0.92....................... 0.78........78%
Trilene Xtra....................0.91...................... .0.72........80%
PLine CFX Fluoro..............0.89........................0. 75.......84%
Trilene.........................0.88.............. ..........0.64........73%
Vanish Fluorocarbon..........0.88.......................0 .51........58%
Sufix Seige....................0.83..................... ...0.71.......86%
P Line..........................0.72................ .......0.62........84%




Line Brand[2] ..........Avg Break strength......AVg Fatigue Strength
Rated"10 Pound Test"

P Line CFX Fluro ............10.7 lbs.............9 lbs
P Line Floroclear ............11.6 lbs ............11.5 lbs
P Line Xtra....................17.3 lbs............ 17.1 lbs
P Line standard............. 8.1 lbs.............. 6.8 lbs

Sufix Seige....................10 lbs...............8.6 lbs
Sufix Elite.....................13.5 lbs............11.3 lbs

Maxima HiVis.................13 lbs...............11 lbs
Maxima Chameleon..........14 lbs................7.9 lbs
Maxima Ultragreen...........13.7lbs..............9 lbs

Trilene.........................9.6 Lbs.............. 7 lbs
Trilene XT.....................10 lbs.................8lbs
Trilene Big Game HiVis......13.6lbs...............10.3

Vanish Fluorocarbon...........9.6 lbs..............5.6 lbs
Stren xtra strong..............14lbs................12.7 lbs
Izorline xxx Hi Vis copolymer..12.7 lbs...........10.3 lbs
Stren Magnathin...............9.7 lbs...............7.7lbs
Yozuri hybrid clear............11.5 lbs..............10.2 lbs



Rated "10 Pound Test"......Stated Diameter........Actual Diameter


P Line Flurocarbon...........none listed.....0.012
P Line Floroclear.............none listed.....0.011
P Line Xtra....................none listed.....0.014
P Line standard ....................0.011.....0.011

Sufix Seige..........................0.012....0.012
Sufix Elite...........................0.012.....0.012

Maxima HiVis......................0.012.....0.014
Maxima Chameleon...............0.012.....0.014
Maxima Ultragreen................0.012.....0.014

Trilene .............................0.011.....0.011
Trilene XT..........................0.011....0.011
Trilene Big Game HiVis...........0.011.....0.0135

Vanish Fluorocarbon..............0.011.....0.011
Stren xtra strong.................0.013....0.012
Izorline xxx Hi Vis copolymer...none listed....0.012
Stren Magnathin .................0.010.....0.010
Yozuri hybrid clear................0.012.....0.012




Discussion


The author fully expects some controversy surrounding the results of testing. Especially since a brand with a cultish following did not stand out from the crowd. What readers should consider before reading any further is this; line strength is not the only important characteristic of a quality fishing line.

Also the author recognizes the limitations of such small sample sizes. A larger run of sample testing was not practical since no previous foundational experience existed.

Another limitation that came into consideration after testing started, was whether different batches of line of the same type and brand, would give different results.

Despite the limitations of this first run of data collection, some valuable insights were gained. One was the immediate superiority of the Palomar knot over the double clinch knot, and the Trilene knot. Although not listed above, data was collected regarding whether lines failed at midpoint or at knot, with the Palomar knot midpoint breaks consisting of about 85% of the samples. Using the other two knots, line failure occurred primarily at the point of the knot.

Another valuable insight was how significant the loss of strength was in line that had been strained to failure. In consideration of the fact that anglers frequently pull to near failure, 20-30 feet of mainline while trying to free snagged terminal gear, the need to trim off weakened line needs to be considered, regardless of whether the line feels abraided.

During testing it became apparent that the elastic characteristics of lines probably plays an important role in whether fish are able to force line failure. Stretch probably favors the lighter diameter lines, and serves the same function as a long, slow action, fishing rod. Low stretch lines also have their particular applications, such as deep jigging, or trolling.

And finally, as evidenced by the fact that there was such a wide variance among lines which were all marketed as "10 pound test", it was not surprising that some lines were as much as 19% thicker than the stated diameter. Maxima lines, although comparing well if one looked only at avg breaking strength, dropped down in the ratings because the actual measured diameters ran 0.014 rather than the 0.012 which was listed. If one were to look for other brands at the diameter of 0.014, we'd be testing 12 or 14 pound lines.

CONCLUSION AND RECOMMENDATIONS


Sample sizes may be too small to draw firm conclusions as to relative strength, however some lines stood out with their consistent above average performance. Experienced anglers may find that in order to maximize performance, they may need to familiarize themselves with several lines. No single brand and model of line will outperform in all applications. More novice anglers may find this information useful as a starting point in choosing a quality fishing line.


The author considers the performance of these lines to be superior at least in the characteristic of line strength and the ability to keep that strength after a big fish, or big snag has given it a good stretching.

P Line Xtra....................1.23...................... ..1.22......98%
Stren xtra.....................1.17..................... ...1.06......90%
Sufix Elite.....................1.12.................... ....0.94......84%
P Line Floroclear..............1.05...................... .1.04.......99%
 
G

GDBrown

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Interesting testing. I wonder how consistent his knot tying was. It appears that the P Line Xtra may have actually been 12# or even 15# from the data shown. The diameter and strength are higher than any of the other P Line products in the test.

I'm beginning to think that having a little stretch is not a bad thing for leaders used with braided mainlines. Especially when used while trolling for big fish.
 
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RunWithSasquatch

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Absolutely GDB, I think there is potential for a large shock with a kicker set on a large fish, and with the wrong rod, or a rod with a firm back bone things could get ugly. Though I havent broke many fish off trolling, usually they spit the gear back in my face.
 
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skunk

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Good info! I am now sticking with UG as its done the best for me, and I like that part about just being really really careful when cinching knots down. I mainly forget to slow down when its been a slow day or I get a bigger fish on. Laziness and adrenalin kill me!!!
 
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