Help - roll cast dilemma...

N

ninja2010

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so i went to the water to practice some roll casting after watching some youtube videos and reading up the technique of roll casting and some single handed spey styles...

anyways, to cut a long story short, i sucked. i couldn't get more than 20-25 feet of line out and the leader/tippet/fly just plopped in a mushy mess instead of turning over and straightening out - and that's on the better attempts.

in most cases, i couldn't even get the first 10 or so feet of the fly line off the water.

then i tried "multiple roll cast" and that kinda worked. i would raise the rod, bring it around and up and then chop it down and repeat the process instantaneously... and that sorta helped.

but, i can't figure out what i'm doing wrong. it looked soooooo easy in the videos.

any input/advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
M

mlw

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I'm in the same boat with spey casting - just finished building a rainshadow 10'-8" 8 wt switch and took it out for the first time tonite (with a sharkskin running line and airflo 420gr compact skagit head). It is harder than it looks in the videos - in an hour and a half I got a handful of casts out that showed promise of what's possible, a lot of embarrassing piles of line. I can see how spey casting will be really helpful in most winter steelhead situations around here.
Michael
 
R

redhawk50

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remember to pause on the backcast just like on a normal cast, the key is to let the rod load but you can't wait to long or the line gets stuck on the water. I usually try to do one motion and forget to pause on the backcast. Also start with the rod pointing at the water so it has a chance to fully load as you pull it up.
 
Irishrover

Irishrover

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What Redhawk said here "Also start with the rod pointing at the water so it has a chance to fully load as you pull it up." that is the key' loading the rod, so the rod does the work. I used to think my arm and shoulder could muscle it out....wrong.....! On the spey cast the harder I tried the worse my cast turned out. I finally figured out the more relaxed I was the better the cast went. That was because I was letting the rod do the work. Start with a good anchor, use the line in the water to load the rod for the forward portion of the cast. MLW which cast were you trying?
 
H

halibuthitman

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don't wait too long to start a new cast, the furthur downstream the line gets the harder to load the rod. If you are trying to rollcast a sinktip in the 7-8 wt class with less than a 9 ft rod you are trying a very difficult cast to master. you need to work on the fundamentals of a basic cast feeling the rod load so you have feel and a connection to your rod and its feel. some tips for practice, use a small flie and a 3 ft leader... its less material to manage and if you learn to cast the line the fly and leader follow anyway, you should learn to roll with a double taper float line, as this will perform best in the begining, sink tips and shooting or rocket taper lines have all the weight at the fly end of the line and make turning the line over without a colapse much more difficult, and there is nothing wrong with rollcasting on grass to master the strokes... good luck-
 
J

joesnuffy

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Since your sencond cast is looking ok, i'd assume that you are waiting too long to start your forward cast (one the first one)

the water tension is grabbing your line.

A lot of people (including me) like to drop their rod to far forward on roll casts. remember to stop the rod tip up where yoiu would for a regular cast. this will improve your distance.
 
N

ninja2010

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thank you all for the observations/advice... it all makes sense. i am waiting too long to cast and with a sink tip, the water is grabbing my line too much as the tip starts sinking in the wait period. plus, i am stopping my forward casts too low, which would account for the short distance. and i'm sure there were instances where i was just using my arms to try and fling the line rather than letting the rod do the work.

i need more practice for sure.

anyway, i found this reference, which is great for troubleshooting casting errors. even answered my questions from an earlier post. the chart is very helpful to me. hope it can benefit someone else.

here's the link: Getting Started in Fly Fishing - Google Books
 
M

mlw

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MLW which cast were you trying?
Mostly the snap-t. I got a couple single speys and a backhand double spey off, but am trying to restrain myself to learning a cast at a time. I think next time I'll find a little slower current for practicing the snap-t.
Michael
 
Irishrover

Irishrover

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Mostly the snap-t. I got a couple single speys and a backhand double spey off, but am trying to restrain myself to learning a cast at a time. I think next time I'll find a little slower current for practicing the snap-t.
Michael

I did the same thing tried too many different cast wanted to learn them all. A guide that spey cast was watching me one time and was kind enough to suggest that I stick with the snap t for one side of the river and the double spey for the oposite bank. He told me the snake roll and the single spey work better on the long belly line but are not so great with the skagit shooting head lines. The skagit lines do better with the water bourn anchors. For the sanp T it's key to at the start to have the rod tip low (the guide that showed me how to do it smacked the water with the rod tip and said "the water is your friend") So a stright line down stream a reverse C movement with the rod coming back in low and close to the starting postion will flip the line up stream, swing the rod up to the one o'clock postion then hit your forward cast without muscling it with your shoulder and you should have it. Once you get the feel for it and that line shoots out across the water you the cast becomes second nature.
 
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joesnuffy

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He told me the snake roll and the single spey work better on the long belly line but are not so great with the skagit shooting head lines.

I've never had an issue with a snake roll using a skagit. Just one more thing that requires practice. (put it on your list) :p
 
Irishrover

Irishrover

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I've never had an issue with a snake roll using a skagit. Just one more thing that requires practice. (put it on your list) :p

Ok I'll give a whorle, just as soon as I get the reverse snap T down:lol:
 
Irishrover

Irishrover

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Joesnuffy ur right

Joesnuffy ur right

I've never had an issue with a snake roll using a skagit. Just one more thing that requires practice. (put it on your list) :p

I had pleanty of time to beat the water with the spey rod today. I had the Dodge Park area of the Sandy all to my self for a couple of hours today. After getting the offhand or reverse snap T down I tried doing the snake roll cast with a skagit line. Have to admitt it worked rather well. That line and big bug on the end sure do pick up speed! Glad I wear those sun glasses. Thanks for the push.;)
 
M

mlw

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Picked up Ed Ward's new dvd Skagit Master, in which he walks through each part of each skagit cast. (c-spay/snapt, double spey, perry poke)
Got some c-speys working today, and another question- What is the best way of handling running line, any helpful tips? I have been holding coils with a finger of my top hand, but stripping in and getting set for the next cast seems cumbersome - I'm sure practice will help.
Michael
 
Irishrover

Irishrover

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Picked up Ed Ward's new dvd Skagit Master, in which he walks through each part of each skagit cast. (c-spay/snapt, double spey, perry poke)
Got some c-speys working today, and another question- What is the best way of handling running line, any helpful tips? I have been holding coils with a finger of my top hand, but stripping in and getting set for the next cast seems cumbersome - I'm sure practice will help.
Michael
Hold the coils in the bottom hand. It's hard to explain. I saw it on a DVD put out by Simon Gawesworth. The coils go between the index finger and the midle finger and you can still strip in coils with the index finger and thumb. When you make the forward cast you let the line go.
 

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