Do you guys and gals.....

rogerdodger

Moderator
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I think the fish counters at the ramps do a pretty good job getting numbers that can be extrapolated.
I think that is very labor intensive ($$$$$) and captures such a small fraction of the actual catch that any extrapolation model will be subject to wide variation/error...

returned tags (and daily licenses) can probably be scanned and the data automatically tallied in a computer. They know the exact number of tags sold, and the exact number of tags returned and counted (which should be a large percentage, >80%, based on a reasonable penalty for not returning them), so extrapolating up is very simple, all that is required is a weighting factor for the tags not returned (will they on average have more, less, or the same relative numbers of fish recorded as the majority of tags actually counted)...easy peasy and way lower cost than relying mainly on creel counting. cheers, roger
 

DrTheopolis

Well-known member
I think the fish counters at the ramps do a pretty good job getting numbers that can be extrapolated.

Only time I ever see the checkers is at very popular ramps (Carver, Garibaldi, etc) during the peak of the seasons. I think it works well on the Columbia (where they do flyovers and count the boats on weekends), and for the ocean.

That system is worthless for bankies on small streams.
 

jamisonace

Most Featured
Fish checkers are there for more than counting fish. They harvest data from the carcass as well. It's all probably another waste of our money but you can't get that data from a tag. And....they count close to 100% of the fish that come to the ramp for weeks.

Anyway, we'll have to disagree on the data's value. I've seen the checkers for a good part of the season on the South Coast and I'm sure they get a very clear picture of the quality of the run. I highly doubt additional data from tags is going to change the overall estimation of run size to any significant degree.

I'm sure they'll try to legitimize a fine for revenue generation with some story like "the data from our fish checkers just isn't enough". This is Oregon after all, the government can't waste our money fast enough.
 

GaryP1958

Active member
"This is Oregon after all, the government can't waste our money fast enough." Apparently you have never lived in Californication!:sad:
 

rogerdodger

Moderator
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"This is Oregon after all, the government can't waste our money fast enough." Apparently you have never lived in Californication!:sad:
I can't believe I agree with Gary on something...:lol:

I have been an adult resident of these states in this order: WA, CA, OR, ID, AZ, OR. In my experience and opinion, OR is the best run financially, just slightly better than WA, and way better than AZ or CA.

Arizona, which has sales, property*, and income taxes, is trying to deal with a $1Billion deficit right now and already gutted it's state university system. On the other hand, this year, when everyone in Oregon does their taxes, they will be getting back 5.6% of the tax they paid last year (kicker refund), Thanks Kate! :lol:

*a nice new pick-up, for example, you are looking at $500/year tax as part of your registration each year in AZ (dropping 15% each year). no thanks, I'm good with $43 per year in Oregon.
 

GaryP1958

Active member
We agree on we like fishing! But to say Kate is a good thing well lets not talk politics! I moved here to rid myself of the liberals in Sacramento, I can say one thing about liberals in Oregon, they are more libertarian and down south they would be considered right wingers. As to the tags I went to Bi Mart Christmas Eve morning to buy my 2016 license and the guy grabbed my harvest tag and said I could be in a raffle for a drift boat. All cool but I was fishing up on Swisshome to Whittaker that afternoon so I grabbed it back.
 

hobster

Well-known member
I can say one thing about liberals in Oregon, they are more libertarian and down south they would be considered right wingers. .
Ever been to Eugene? :lol: I am very liberal but living in this town for 21 years has made me feel like i'm not. Crazy liberal, but i love this place :)
 

sapo

Member
------------------
Improved Estimates of Harvest

Estimates of salmon and steelhead harvest are currently based on the voluntary return of anglers’ Combined Angling Tags...and Daily Angling Licenses..... To help ensure a better and more reliable estimate of salmon and steelhead harvest, ODFW will make the reporting of harvested salmon and steelhead mandatory by requiring the return of Combined Angling Tags, Hatchery Harvest Tags, and Daily Angling Licenses annually.

The details and process for implementing mandatory reporting have not been finalized. To be effective, the mandatory rule will need to be backed up with a fine, denial of future licenses for a period of time, or some other penalty for non-compliance in order to encourage anglers to turn their tags in. These and other details will be determined during the early implementation of this plan.
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If this happens, it is absolutely stupid and another example of how our government reaches into our lives. Yes, I know they want to have accurate estimates but I lose my tags sometimes and this is just taking away freedoms. Let people decide whether they want to turn in their tags or not and give incentives for that, but requiring every single person to turn in their tags each year is utterly ridiculous. You know, most years I don't even get out to Fisherman's (where I buy my tags) by February or later since I'm not a winter steelhead guy...So what, if I don't return my tags in a certain time frame I'll get a fine?! Ridiculous. This would really **** me off...just more examples of how our gov't wants to control what we do.

Lol screw it, if this happens maybe I just won't get tags and risk a fine
 
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GaryP1958

Active member
Ever been to Eugene? :lol: I am very liberal but living in this town for 21 years has made me feel like i'm not. Crazy liberal, but i love this place :)
Only when I have to that town makes no sense, is there a single road that goes all the way thru? I go there when I need to go to Lowes, Home Depot or Winco other than that no way!
 

jamisonace

Most Featured
This is shocking to me but I'll take your word for it. No surprise about CA and WA I guess.

Regarding taxes though....OR has the 3rd highest state tax burden in the country. No wonder they have some to give back.

The kicker refund is like the bully at school taking your lunch money and when you start to cry he gives you a nickel back to make you feel better. Thank you Kate, may I have another?

I can't believe I agree with Gary on something...:lol:

I have been an adult resident of these states in this order: WA, CA, OR, ID, AZ, OR. In my experience and opinion, OR is the best run financially, just slightly better than WA, and way better than AZ or CA.

Arizona, which has sales, property*, and income taxes, is trying to deal with a $1Billion deficit right now and already gutted it's state university system. On the other hand, this year, when everyone in Oregon does their taxes, they will be getting back 5.6% of the tax they paid last year (kicker refund), Thanks Kate! :lol:

*a nice new pick-up, for example, you are looking at $500/year tax as part of your registration each year in AZ (dropping 15% each year). no thanks, I'm good with $43 per year in Oregon.
 
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rogerdodger

Moderator
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Regarding taxes though....OR has the 3rd highest state tax burden in the country.
I don't know the source of your ranking but the Tax Foundation, an independent and well respected tax research organization, has Oregon just lightly above average for total state/local tax burden as a percentage of total income in the state.

US average: 9.8%. Oregon: 10.1% (because a few states are much higher than average and lots of states are just slightly lower than average, this puts Oregon's ranking at 16, just below us at 17 is North Carolina right on the national average at 9.8%.).

"State-local tax burdens are very close to one another and slight changes in taxes or income can translate to seemingly dramatic shifts in rank. For example, the twenty mid-ranked states, ranging from Oregon (16th) to Georgia (35th), only differ in burden by just over one percentage point."

http://taxfoundation.org/article/annual-state-local-tax-burden-ranking-fy-2011

so based on this data I would conclude that Oregon's tax burden is about right and getting a kicker back this year is a result of responsible budgeting and spending. I would personally like to see us spending more general tax money on ODFW (requiring less from licenses and tags) and schools.
 

rogerdodger

Moderator
Most Featured
If this happens, it is absolutely stupid and another example of how our government reaches into our lives. Yes, I know they want to have accurate estimates but I lose my tags sometimes and this is just taking away freedoms. Let people decide whether they want to turn in their tags or not and give incentives for that, but requiring every single person to turn in their tags each year is utterly ridiculous. You know, most years I don't even get out to Fisherman's (where I buy my tags) by February or later since I'm not a winter steelhead guy...So what, if I don't return my tags in a certain time frame I'll get a fine?! Ridiculous. This would really **** me off...just more examples of how our gov't wants to control what we do.
there is this thing, perhaps you have heard of it, called the United States Postal Service....we have always just put our tags in an envelope and mailed them in.

Lol screw it, if this happens maybe I just won't get tags and risk a fine
for anyone thinking this is a good option, it sounds like an automatic ticket during the winter when trout and other fish are closed.
"All anglers (regardless of age) need a valid Combined Angling Tag in possession to angle for salmon, steelhead, sturgeon and halibut."
no talking your way out of a ticket if only steelhead and/or salmon are open, basically between 10/31 and 5/22, you need a license and tag just to fish on most rivers.
 
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sapo

Member
well with the 2016 regs lots of rivers stay open to trout year round, but ya just saying..

ya ik you can mail them in but what annoys me is the idea of forcing people to return their tags or else..
 

hobster

Well-known member
Thanks for the info. I read in the WA regs it is required to turn them in but that doesn't mean anything.
 

Gary W

Member
Like Jamisonice said if you do not turn in your deer tag tagged or not You pay before you get a new one I had an unused deer tag in 2014 and went to ODFW in Charleston in November and had to pay 25 dollars before they would give me my Pioneer license for this year.
 

JeannaJigs

Well-known member
It's "Required" to turn them in, in Washington, but they don't fine you for it. The only tag they will give you a fine for if you don't turn it in, is the Puget Sound Crab catch card. Ask me how I know about that one :-/

Not sure why people get their panties in a twist about sending in a piece of paper you no longer need. I'd be a bit irked if there was a fine for it, in the event of a lost tag, but I've only lost it once, so... It's good reporting on the hatchery runs.
 

rogerdodger

Moderator
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It's "Required" to turn them in, in Washington, but they don't fine you for it. The only tag they will give you a fine for if you don't turn it in, is the Puget Sound Crab catch card. Ask me how I know about that one :-/

Not sure why people get their panties in a twist about sending in a piece of paper you no longer need. I'd be a bit irked if there was a fine for it, in the event of a lost tag, but I've only lost it once, so... It's good reporting on the hatchery runs.
the WA law on this even calls the fine for not turning in a crab catch card "a ten-dollar administrative fee".

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=220-56-175

the bottom line is that since data from the tags is required to manage the resources, tags that are not returned will increase the cost of this fisheries management work, I see no reason to spread this cost around to the people that return their tags, thus an "administrative fee" is the correct approach.

You choose to make the process cost more money, you should pay that extra money. Otherwise you are a deadbeat. Don't like it, then don't fish (or hunt) for the species covered by these programs.

And relax, a lost catch tag is not a problem, here is how WA deals with it, you just need to be able to write and mail a letter. I would expect something similar in OR:
------------------------------------
I lost my catch record card? What do I do?
State rule, (WAC 220-56-175), still requires you to report your catch information by April 30th each year, even if you lost your card. If your card was lost or stolen, send the information requested below to:

Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
Fish Program
Catch Record Cards
600 Capitol Way N
Olympia WA 98501-1091

Provide the following information (See complete instructions):

Your full name
Mailing address
Telephone number with area code
Date of birth
WILD identification number, if you know it (found on your license)
All retained salmon, sturgeon, steelhead, Dungeness crab and Halibut catch information.

------------------------------
 

DrTheopolis

Well-known member
Except in Oregon, if you want to replace a lost tag, it's indeed a big problem. You have to go to an ODFW office for a replacement (or that's the way it's been quite recently). The license can be replaced anywhere that sells licenses... the tag, not so much.
 
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