Let's get "chummy" !

K
kaimuki49
ChezJfrey said:
Actually, it seems quite clear and is neither 'legalese' nor semantics.

"Chumming: Depositing in the water any substance, not attached to a hook, which may attract fish."

If scent is applied to a lure, which is technically a device with a hook, would it not be considered chumming according to the specific definition?

CHEZ - yeppers mate, dats what big kahuna has been trying to tell these fellas. t k
 
ChezJfrey
kaimuki49 said:
CHEZ - yeppers mate, dats what big kahuna has been trying to tell these fellas. t k

Actually, looking back, my phrasing was quite poor. What I meant is that scent would NOT be considered chumming if it is applied to a lure since I would think that a lure is technically a hook, albeit an extended version.
 
K
kaimuki49
ChezJfrey said:
Actually, looking back, my phrasing was quite poor. What I meant is that scent would NOT be considered chumming if it is applied to a lure since I would think that a lure is technically a hook, albeit an extended version.

CHEZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz !!! OK chezz let's go with what you are saying for a minute (and I understand your point). If the scent is slathered (lol, i love dat word "slathered"!) to the swivels or a flasher which preceded the lure, then that would by your analysis be chumming, right? t bk k
 
GraphiteZen
kaimuki49 said:
ZEN - ok the verdict is in. Here is the scoop. You recited the definition of "chum/chummin" - very good. You then recited the definition of bait and scent (tho i must have an outdated book because i couldnt find "scent" on page 7. i shall accept your representation on that) - ok, very good again.

However, how do you get from the definition of those various things to your conclusion that since chumming is the depositing in the water any substance, not attached to a hook, which may attract fish, then it follows that using scent in places other than a hook, is not chumming?

Scent according to the regs is a "substance", yes? when put in the water in some way - other than on a hook - it "may attract fish", right? Would it not then be chum/chumming? The discussion you offered about what bait is, is correct, but not relevant to answering the issue in this case. A red herring maybe. t big k kai

It's actually somewhat of a dichotomy: It's a substance which is common to both parts (chumming and bait), but can not be held exclusively to both parts as it is neither chumming, nor bait (in the traditional sense of the term). It's therefore void of any current law's ability to regulate it's common use and is legal. Of course if you abused the substance and tried to place a bunch of it in a sunken bucket, then you would violating the legality of it's use. In my opinion.
 
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TTFishon
There's always a loophole but I'll keep it to myself. Don't want to get "Granny Slapped".:lol:
 
Coho Kid
wait are you saying scent is legal in water's like the Deschutes where there is no bait allowed?
 
GraphiteZen
That's a good question... Unless it says specifically in the regs for the Deschutes that scent is not to be used then, yes, I would argue that it's legal, for it says right in the regs that scent is not considered bait. That distinction is is contained within the description of what is considered "bait".
 
ChezJfrey
kaimuki49 said:
CHEZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz !!! OK chezz let's go with what you are saying for a minute (and I understand your point). If the scent is slathered (lol, i love dat word "slathered"!) to the swivels or a flasher which preceded the lure, then that would by your analysis be chumming, right? t bk k

I admit that given your question, my interpretation of the regulations, as they are worded, would lead me to presume that scent anywhere else besides a device with a directly attached hook, might technically be chumming. Though I also doubt ODFW or OSP would cite anyone applying a dab (or slathering :) ) of scent to a swivel.

Of course one might just attach a hook to said swivel in order to appease the regulation ;)
 
capblack
i think its pretty clear, what theyre trying to outlaw is dumping a bunch of bait or "chum" into the water while fishing, scent and attractants applied to gear is not the problem. lets all quit bitchin and go fishin. Brian
 
K
kaimuki49
CHEZ - it was really hard for you to say that i realize ("might technically be") lol. you are to be commended for your intellectual honesty.

winter just started? wow.
 
ChezJfrey
kaimuki49 said:
CHEZ - it was really hard for you to say that i realize ("might technically be") lol. you are to be commended for your intellectual honesty.

winter just started? wow.

Oh I don't know if it was hard...I was merely intellectualizing a hypothetical situation since I don't even use scent. LOL!

But if I were, my assessment would require me to only use it on a lure given my interpretation...technicality or not.

Edit to add: Maybe next you can pose whether the designation of plastics, such as worms, should even be considered bait as they are currently in the regs...I mean why would a stickbait that looks/swims like a minnow be OK in a non-bait water but not a rubberized swimbait that looks like a fish? Hehehehe :)
 
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K
kaimuki49
CHEZZZ - you make a very good point on that. the regulations define plastic and rubber baits as "bait", and all other lures, jigs, spoons, spinners, plugs, etc etc are considered "lures". this is a poorly drafted section in the regs. there are two problems - first, the distinction that the regs makes between the two is not rationally related to a desired policy outcome. second, the distinction is woefully out of step with the actual baits on the market. i suspect that section of the regulations was enacted prior to the emergence of the huge variety in plastic baits. there are numerous companies who make good lures which are part solid plug and part plastic. are those "hybrids" a bait or are they a lure? then there is the even faster growing area of plastic swim baits - some are all plastic, solid or jointed, some are plastic with a metal or fiberglass head. these are just the continuing evolution of swim baits and lures - they are more inventive, have different action when used, etc. did the Department really intend to consider these sorts of things as "baits", and as such, prohibit their use in a lot of places? if so, what was the management benefit that was obtained (policy) by doing that? anyhu, big kahuna is tired. must go moi moi now. til the sun rises tomorrow, adios. t. big kahuna kaimalu
 
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K
kaimuki49
In fact CHEZZ and any and all of you who think that section of the regulations is poorly drafted and needs to be revised to reflect the actual policy goal sought, and to remove the ambiguity and over lap as presently exists- i will gladly spearhead an effort to do that if we had a small committee working together. Give a shout to me, we can email, talk, then meet to see if we all on the same page, and then what actions we are going to engage in to get the reg changed. i am up for it - let me know if anyone would jump in line. ok, big kahuna REALLY tired now. aloha kakai'aaka til tomorrow
 
GDBrown
Boy, you guys really need to get out and just fish! If you started by going to bed a little earlier you would have a chance to try some of your obscure tactics before the sun hitts the water.

I just use a two hook rig, the first one has the eggs just globed onto the hook so they will come OFF easily the second hook has them attached with an egg loop. This lets the eggs come OFF and drift in the current attracting the fish. You know what happens when they get the ones on the second hook!

GD
 
ChezJfrey
GDBrown said:
Boy, you guys really need to get out and just fish! If you started by going to bed a little earlier you would have a chance to try some of your obscure tactics before the sun hitts the water.

I just use a two hook rig, the first one has the eggs just globed onto the hook so they will come OFF easily the second hook has them attached with an egg loop. This lets the eggs come OFF and drift in the current attracting the fish. You know what happens when they get the ones on the second hook!

GD


LOL! I hear you.

Trust me, I spend very little time contemplating these things as I really don't think it's all that complicated...just throw a line in and experiment with simple and effectively proven tactics :)
 
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