Combat fishing... ...and the meaning of life.

C
chunk_style
I think that's a great idea, personally! I don't live up there, and I'm leaving shortly anyway, but I would love to see a program like that. I personally believe that the first weapon everyone has is not presenting a "soft target", the second is having a buddy, the third is a cell phone, and the fourth is the option of carrying a weapon. The main concern most people have, I think, is the druggies. They frequently cannot be reasoned with, and they are frequently deperate. If you fish alone (as I do), and are out of cell range (quite frequently we all are, I'm sure) all you have is option one and four. Desperate people not in their right mind could easily choose a dangerous course of action for everyone if they are not swayed by option one. I don't carry any weapon other than my fishing knife, but if I owned a gun, I probably would carry it. I also believe that there are three types of people. (1) those who feel it not necessary to prepare for dangerous situations, (2) those who plan for dangerous situations, and (3)those who used to be (1) and are now (2). I am (1) because I would like to never be (3). Sometimes, (3)s don't survive. Sad, unfortunate, and a damn shame, but all too true nonetheless.
I would like to see everyone do whatever they feel is necessary to feel safe and enjoy our beautiful rivers, and I wish law enforcement would focus more on problems like this than on how long people park in certain spots. Until they do that, no single solution is sufficient. Thanks for the soapbox time!
 
F
FishFinger
Your notions are noble indeed.

In theory your plan could be implemented in a few local areas.
Most of the parks that generate gatherings in mass usually have signage pertaining to the "rules".

Seldom do you hear of crimes or attacks on people related to fishing in the urban environment.

Issues tend to arise in more remote locations, often far from cell signals.
You'd have to look long and hard to find an example of anyone licensed to carry being convicted of a crime involving a firearm.

Conversely it's often the case people prohibited from owning firearms, are involved in most of the crimes.

I opt to carry for 3 specific reasons:

1) A policeman is too heavy to carry on my hip
2) Crime happens in seconds, police arrive in minutes.
3) It's my personal responsibility to protect myself, my family, and those I love; from harm.



I know of a story where a friend was fishing the upper clackamas.
From out of the trees rolls this grubby looking tweeker eager to start up a conversation about the burls he collects.

In fact he was willing to show my friend where they are at.

After being rebutted a few times, the human slime pulls a knife and demands all his money.

Being alone in wilderness and at knife point, what's a guys gonna do?

Draws back his coat to expose the Sig .40 on his hip; at which time the tweeker started apologizing as he back off into the woods once again.

FBI reports confirm that's how most confrontations end for CHL holders.

In the same situation police would have been justified to shot the guy for being within 21'and brandishing edged weapon.


If you serious about wanting to be impact illegal angling activity, hang out at the downty bridge on eagle creek, or bonnie lure, or even Cedar creek during coho snagging season. Report every game violation you see.

If you want to help scocity at large, ride the yellow max line and report every assault you see.

But be careful, when you put yourself between people and their crimes the chance to become a victim



DSCN0324.jpg

.40 cal rattle bell.
 
Irishrover
Irishrover
Dude, I agree with Fishfinger that your intention may well be noble. However I would respectfully venture to say that you are painting a picture of Oregon and the Metro Area that is not accurate. Because OFF is viewed world wide I feel a little balance is required in this thread.

You stated "I am afraid that my suspicions have been verified. It is, unfortunately, unsafe to use the access facilities that your licensing dollars go toward providing you. That is unless you are a thug, a criminal, or are carrying a gun."

I'm curious to know as to how you verified your suspicions. I fish the metro area and do not pack a gun. I feel safe and for the record I'm neither a thug or a criminal. I am a retired Law Enforcement Officer who worked 30+ years in the Metro Area. From my professional experince I'd say the facts do not back up the preception. Check out the NCIC crime stats compiled via the uniformed crime reporting system.

The only mention of violent crime in this thread was a post from Fish 4 All about some incidents that occurred in Washington state.

JT Lunker said in his post that he has never felt in any danger while fishing in the Portland area. I mentioned that I have fished for over 50 years in Oregon and had never had an incident. This is exculpatory information that folks need to hear when forming an opinion about the fishing environment here in Oregon.

I think that there might be some confusion with the folks constitutional, and statutory right to carry a fire arm and crime. What I read into this is that some folks feel safer while packing. If that's the case then they should carry but it can't be extrapolated from that, that only thugs, criminals and folks packing a firearm are safe on the rivers. Oregon is better than that. Hang around Oregon a while and give it a chance before branding the state by implication as occupied by Red Necks, criminals or thugs.

Fishfinger did well to cover some of my other concerns.

Dude I truly hope that you get a chance to get out here and have some good times fishing and enjoy the experience that is Oregon:).
 
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B
bigdog
Very well put
 
F
Fishtopher
First I want to start by saying a few things.
Over 90,000 people in Oregon have their CHL. 51% of Oregon households have firearms. 66 million Americans possess handguns. If there is a problem, its nationwide, not at the river. Also in 1999, Department of Justice found that 168,881 crimes of violence occured where police had not responded within an hour. So what good is a cell phone when AND IF you ever get mugged in cell phone range on the river. Think the time gets shorter?



"...if someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."-Dalai Lama.

dude young said:
Hi Folks,

I am impressed that so many people have such strong opinions on this topic, but, I am afraid that my suspicions have been verified.
I am equally impressed with your strong opinions also, however, I hope you have spent a lot more time on the river than you have on internet forums to verify your suspicions. a lot more can be learned from spending an afternoon at High Rocks in July, or Bonnie Lure State Park in October. Or a boat ramp on the Columbia in September, or Williamette in April. Then you could form an unbiased opinion on the local rivers. All of the above are less than 30 minutes from SE Portland. And all of those are in cell phone range.

dude young said:
It is, unfortunately, unsafe to use the access facilities that your licensing dollars go toward providing you. That is unless you are a thug, a criminal, or are carrying a gun.
In my opinion, thats hogwash, respectively. Using your same reasoning, it is unsafe to take that same kid to school via public transportation. Its unsafe to walk to the corner store.
I dont get it. Why the crime at the river crusade? Why not drunk drivers on the way to the river? Why not contaminates in your local Superfund river, Id be more worried about my kid getting sick in polluted water, than safety from violence at a river. Catalytic converters get stolen off cars at the car lot. Banks get robbed. Good guys here, bad guys there, whatever. It's not a river thing, its not a local thing. Its human, and its worldwide. It just sounds to me like you're over-reacting abit.

dude young said:
This is not acceptable to me, nor should it be to you. While I appreciate all the input that you all have offered, the one thing that seems to be missing is an offer of a solution. (Packing is NOT a solution to this problem.)
 
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Raincatcher
Raincatcher
Don't make me go all "Grambo"...

Don't make me go all "Grambo"...

dude young;
Well,well,well you certainly got everyone's attention. Would you be willing to satisfy a little 'ol ladies curiosity? Let me just clarify a few things for everyone here,first. While I am now a peace loving,grand kid smooching grandmother, I used to be a different kind of "mother" altogether. Let's just say I wasn't very cuddly and let it go at that. I don't want to destroy my wholesome reputation here ;) .Dude,where exactly have you been out fishing? Have you checked out any of your own local fishing holes? You don't say where you have actually fished. I would love to take you and your family out fishing any time you have time. I would love to take you to some of the more rural,remote areas in our beautiful state. I never had any trouble in the Portland area. Don't be all smug telling me not to present myself as a "soft" target. I have never presented myself as any kind of target. However, unless you would have me wear a Halloween beard and mustache there just isn't much I can do about my appearance. I would never remember where to scratch and when to spit to make anyone think I am anything but a "gramma". Wouldn't want to for that matter. But I have never put up with being intimidated or bullied by anyone. Perhaps when you reach my age...58 to be exact...you will realize you don't bounce back as quick as you used to. You also don't want to waste time being pushed around and chased out of somewhere just because you are perceived as "weak" for the first time in your life.
The invitation stands, anytime you want to get out in the wild away from the signs of civilization...Safeway,Arco,Sportsmen's Warehouse...get in touch with me. Maybe some of the other ones here will extend the hand of experience to you also. Then you can experience true Oregon fishing at it's best.
Barb
 
B
bigdog
I would have to fully agree here. Never in the years I have been fishing have I ever had any problems at all. I'm more then sure like anything eles you do in life there are there times when something bad happens, but also know they are very far and few between and I mean very far and very few. Everyone I have ever met on the water fishing have been friendly as can be. Never have I ever felt the need to carry a firearm and never tend to. Now as for a car alarm well that I have to have but lets face it if you are really going fishing the odds are you are going to be leaving your rig a ways away from you and it doesn't matter where you are fishing or even at the store there are thiefs out there that will steal anything that isn't bolted down, heck bolts don't stop them anymore.

Before making the call that you think you need to carry more then a pole and tackle to fish by reading a few post or watching the wrong news channel you really need to get out on some of our beutifull waters and see for yourself how it is. I'm more then willing to show a few good places that you and your family can go and you will see it is a great fun beutifull fishing state we have here. I like Barb am more then sure there are even more of us on here that would be willing to take you to some great places all you have to do is just ask. I really hope that soon you are able to change your opion on this subject and realise that oregon is a great state and is no more dangerious then the next state is.
 
C
chris61182
I'm more then sure like anything eles you do in life there are there times when something bad happens, but also know they are very far and few between and I mean very far and very few.

Just playing devils advocate but do you have smoke detectors, a fire extinguisher, or how about circuit breakers in your home? Do you buckle your seat belt but still have life insurance?

Carrying isn't appropriate for everyone, just don't begrudge those who do, as there's absolutely nothing wrong with being prepared, even for those events with distinctly remote odds.

Edit: I more selectively quoted in hopes of trying to clarify my point/direction. Even though I know it's still not perfectly clear, please do accept my apologizes.
 
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B
bigdog
Well I never once said there was anything wrong with carrying in fact, I said that I don't and I wouldn't or won't carry. The key word in that is ( I ) as far as begrudge any one for doing so. In fact out of all the post and replies on this subject I would have to say mine is one of the nice ones on this. In fact if carrying makes a person feel safer or better then more power to them just like any one eles on here I just don't want someone to think they have to carry and that is what Dude has said that he thinks it is unsafe here and has to carry. More then half the people I know carry but that is the free choice they have to make.

With all that said I'm not trying to start anything here but do have to wonder what it is about my reply that you felt the need to single me out on?
 
C
chris61182
bigdog said:
With all that said I'm not trying to start anything here but do have to wonder what it is about my reply that you felt the need to single me out on?


I wasn't trying to single you out, your post just made the best starting point for my devil's advocate stance on preparedness. My apologizes, written word makes it difficult to convey that I was trying to use that as a spring board and the 'you' was meant in a more general sense.
 
B
bigdog
Ok cool thats what I was hoping just wasn't sure about it though. It's all good never any hard feelings with me.
 
D
dude young
So, okay. I am sorry, but I feel as though my last post may have started off a bit stronger than it should have. I guess I did not put as much thought into it as I could have, but sometimes my fingers will be in fourth gear while my brain is still warming up.

Irish Rover, Fishtopher, thanks for calling me out on that. You are right, I certainly have not spent enough time on the water here to say that it is unsafe. I will definitely plan on doing some extensive research on the topic. (After all, I do love fishing for science)

If I may, It is not my intention to paint any picture of Oregon. And, I'd like to retract my comments about safety at access points (at least until I do have enough experiences to make any comment). I will say, however that there has not been enough conversation here to suggest that there are no issues to be concerned about. No, this is not a war zone, we don't need military support. I also would like to say that I never once put anyone down for deciding to carry a firearm. I am a hunter, a member of the NRA, a gun owner. I am sure that many of those that I have fished with in the past have carried firearms. And I am not saying that (any of) you are unjustified if you carry. My original point was that I did not expect to read about the kind of confrontations on the water, between anglers, that warranted people carrying a gun for safety; not to debate the right to carry or whether or not common street crime is a problem in the area.

Barb, I apologize. You should carry a gun if that helps you feel secure. Please, please follow through with the training that you are planning on. And not just you, but everyone that chooses to own a gun, any gun, for any reason. I hope to meet up with you and fish around Portland, show me "the ropes", share a cup of coffee.

I look forward to meeting as many folks as I can, and fish as much water as I can. Look, I moved here for a reason, that reason was that I knew that Oregon (and Portland) was the place I wanted to be. I am sorry if I disrespected the State, or any of you in the process. Again, not my intention.
 
Irishrover
Irishrover
Hey Dude Young,

Just let the water levels go down a wee bit before you start your research and welcome to Oregon. The Sandy should be a good bet for winter steelhead this year at least that's where I'll be looking for them. That's a funny thing about the brain and finger speed ratio. At some point during the aging process it switches, like when you are at the lake trying to tie a size 18 adams dry fly on and the fish are jumping. The brain is going "hurry hurry" and the eyes and fingers are going "not so fast"!:lol:
 
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Raincatcher
Raincatcher
muddle in the middle

muddle in the middle

dude young;
Thank you for being man enough to admit your possible mistakes and for acknowledging the fact that we (OFF members) were a bit quick to jump up and defend what we thought you were attacking. You are right in that we Oregonian are very proud AND protective of our entire state and all that it offers.
My offer is an open offer,so feel free to get in touch and we'll give 'em hell together.
Oh,by the way, welcome to OFF! Just in case that got lost in the muddle in the middle.
Barb
 
B
bigdog
Yes welcome to OFF we are glad to have you on board. Wait and see when you get out there and you will find it is a great state and we have great fishing to offer. The steelhead run is a little off at the moment but it is going to pick up and when it does oh boy get ready for some good times. As well as Barb my offer is and will be a standing one just hit me up and we can get together for some fishing. I normally go out on fridays and saterdays and I'm always willing and looking for new people to fish with. Always good to learn different styles and ways and combine them with your own. Look forward to meeting and having some fun on the water.
 

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