What is the most egregious fish/game violation that you have witnessed?

[Kellyannam]

...and did you report it?

I can personally only think of two, and I feel bad for not reporting the first one, I wasn't sure if I could report the second.

1. In Alaska, if you are a resident, you can dipnet for certain fish. This is especially popular when the reds are running. You are allowed to get 25 salmon for the head of household and 10 additional for each additional member of your household. So, you can get a lot of fish, and people usually do. One night when I had come home from fishing, I was walking my dog and there was a plastic tarp on the grass behind the parking lot of some condos I lived next to. There were about 10 uncleaned salmon on the tarp. I thought "Well, they must have just got back from Soldotna or something and are getting ready to clean all their fish". I was wrong. The next morning, they were still there. They were there for about a week and had completely rotted. I didn't report it because I thought they wouldn't have a way to tell who the guilty party was anyways. But in hindsight, I should have. I think because fish were aplenty it didn't **** me off as much as it should have. If I had fished for like a month and only caught one salmon, and saw those 10 rotting salmon, I think I probably would have been way more upset. That doesn't make it any less wrong though.

2. I was fishing for silvers in Bird Creek. When the silvers are running, the pinks usually are too. Not very many people want to keep the pinks so they just release them, after getting a sad face when they pull the fish out of the water and realize it isn't a silver . Well one lady across the creek from me pulled up a pink onto the shore. She didn't seem like she had much experience fishing and I saw her say something to the person next to her, I assume to ask if it was a silver or not. She didn't immediately take it off the hook, she let it flop off the hook. She was about 3 yards from the water. Instead of picking up the fish and gently releasing it, she proceeded to KICK the fish three times until it made it back into the water. I was shocked. I'd never seen a person kick a fish they wanted to release.

BTW, if you want to save the Wildlife Violation reporting number for Oregon in your phone right now (which I think is a good idea ) it is 1-800-452-7888 (also on p. 4 of the regs).

 

[plumb2fish]

You can't expect many fishermen to have college level vocabularies....lmao....
Try easy words like....Idk.....worst....most upsetting....even some may understand blatant....

 

[eugene1]

Fishing today on the Sac river. Saw a game warden boat come by and check some kids on the shore. Seemed like they were there for awhile.

Later they came up to my boat and checked my license. No worries for me. They said they have found some people fishing with no lic. and others with too many fish. Nice to see some enforcement on the the fishing regs down here to protect the fish. I think OR would be better off if they had officers dedicated to natural resource enforcement, but just my 2 cents. OSP can't do the job everywhere. Of course with budget constraints, just got to get along with what you got.

Best,

 

[JeannaJigs]

There was a douche on the Alsea this year that snagged a massive 40+ salmon in the back with a giant buzzbomb, in front of about 7 others myself included. He had no control of the fish because it was snagged in the back and so it took him up and downriver for a good 20 minutes completely effing up fishing for everyone else the entire time. Finally lands it and rips the gills out. Several people told him how it was and that it was illegal but he didn't give a crap. A short time later he snags another fish with some crappy red and white spoon, gets the fish in takes it up the bank about 10 feet, drops it in the sand, looks at it for a good minute and a half, then kicks it back in the river because he decided it was too dark and just not large enough to be worth his snagging effort. That one got called in. Unfortunately, there's no man power to do anything about it though so calling in violations really doesn't do anything. They log it, and that's the end of it. Unless you happen to be witnessed by Marshall who goes out of his way to write violations for the stupidest things. That guy is like a freakin' commando.

 

[C_Run]

I can think of a couple of egregious game violations I witnesses as a kid, both on Elk River, the one in Curry County.

First one was I was on some kind of nature hike with my older brother where we got dropped off and were to be picked up by our mom at some predetermined time and place. It had started dumping rain so we hunkered down under this big wind thrown stump about 100 feet up the bank to wait it out. Along comes this tiny cute little Bambi with spots deer to cross the road in front of us and it walks over the bank. Right then, this carload of yahoos comes by and skids to a stop right in front of us and starts blasting down the bank at it with shotguns, maybe suitable for ducks but not deer. We just sat there and watched since they hadn't seen us. After quite a bit of shooting they just drove off and either hadn't killed the deer or it wasn't worth it to them to go get it. I'm not sure which.

Then the other one was when I was bank fishing with some other folks in a hole with quite a few fall chinook stacked up. This boat comes by and the guys get out on the bank. There were not many boats there in those days like there is now. Anyway, the boat guys start chucking lots of rocks in the river and kind of herd the fish all to the front of the hole and then get out the big heavy rods with the bank sinkers and big treble hooks on the line and start ripping them through the concentrated fish. After dragging a few out, they load up and continue their float.

 

[Flapslapper]

well, there was a guy netting catfish on the Fox here; when DNR pulled up, they noticed that his pickup truck bed was full of catfish... hundreds of pounds worth. Turns out he owned a seafood restaurant. I heard later that he was facing jail time for commercial fishing without a license.

One very common thing to see here is um, 'out-of-towners' (to avoid offending anyone) who cannot obtain a fishing license because they are here illegally. They use a stick or beer can wrapped with 20lb test, so they can just throw it in the water when the DNR or Forest Preserve cops roll up. As you might have guessed, they feel no obligation to obey size or bag limits either.

I did call the poacher line for one in particular who was netting smallie babies and taking them home in an empty Gatorade bottle. I gave them his license plate # and description. They called me back like 2 mos later, by which time it was way too late.

 

[handmethewrench]

I am not sure if it was illegal but when I was living in California I used to fish off the Malibu Pier. One day a guy caught a huge stingray, as he was bringing it closer to the pier (which was 20 ft off the water so to let things go you had to walk to the end to the shore) He gaffed it, brought it up, cut the wings off and threw it back. I left the pier and never went back.

I like the word egregious, plenty of fishers know the word

 

[Flapslapper]

I like the word egregious, plenty of fishers know the word

Who remembers Dr Demento?

Words can be such fun toys...

 

[Casting Call]

Fs u just exacerbatec the situtation! :think:

 

[Kellyannam]

Fishing today on the Sac river. Saw a game warden boat come by and check some kids on the shore. Seemed like they were there for awhile.

Later they came up to my boat and checked my license. No worries for me. They said they have found some people fishing with no lic. and others with too many fish. Nice to see some enforcement on the the fishing regs down here to protect the fish. I think OR would be better off if they had officers dedicated to natural resource enforcement, but just my 2 cents. OSP can't do the job everywhere. Of course with budget constraints, just got to get along with what you got.

Best,

Where on the Sac do you go? I was raised in Northern California, so I'm very familiar with that body of water. I've had the CA DFG check me too. I was fishing on the Yuba River on the bank of my Uncle's ranch and these two guys in a little aluminum boat came and anchored right next to me, which I found a little odd, since there are a lot of more preferable spots on the Yuba if you have access to a boat. They kept watching me (I was a little creeped out at the time because I was 16 and alone) and when I caught a trout and brought it to the bank, one of them said "Good job!" and they rowed over to the bank. One guy got out of the boat and asked to see if he could check it out, to see what a nice catch it was (with his camera in hand, which I thought was strange). He picked it up, and looked at the underbelly of the fish (where the clipped adipose fin was) and just said, "Oh yeah, that's a nice one!", then got back into his boat and they rowed away. I found it really strange. I immediately called my Uncle and he said that it would have had to have been Fish & Game, but they weren't in uniform or anything, so it was pretty confusing. Even though I was a little creeped out by the whole thing, in hindsight I thought it was good because I usually take all the extra time I need to study the regs in whatever place I'm fishing, and I know a lot of people down there don't.

There are some bad apples in CA DFG though, so sometimes I get kind of wary of them; they harassed Ted Nugent one year after going on a hunt with one of our family friends. They busted into his house (my Uncle and Dad's friends', who I've known since I was born, AFTER they mistakenly busted into a little old lady's house who they originally thought was Mitch's) and ransacked the place, trying to get stuff on TN. He talks about it here on Glenn Beck at 4:45 http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/04/26/watch-ted-nugent-tells-the-full-story/ . There is also one local game warden that kept harassing my Dad, even though my Dad was never caught doing anything illegal. Then one day my Dad flipped out because he was sick of this guy always checking him, ignoring others, following his truck when he'd go fishing/hunting, and telling him that he "must" be doing something wrong because of xyz. After that he left my Dad alone. My parent's didn't have any semblance of an amicable divorce, and certain members on my Mom's side of the family knew some Warden's very well. I'd hate to assume there was some sort of correlation there, but I can't think of why else one person would constantly target my old man.


In Alaska, they also have pretty good enforcement and presence at most major fishing spots, which is good because there were a lot of "outlaws" there that didn't think they had to follow the same rules everyone else did. I'm not talking about "minor" things that are understandable that some may be confused on. I'm talking about going extremely over limit and dip-netting past the markers in order to get the "first shot" at the incoming Salmon, putting others who followed the boundary rules at a disadvantage.

I haven't had too much experience with ODFW here, but the employees I've met here through volunteer work have seemed very kind, down to earth, and not power-trippy.

 

[Kellyannam]

There was a douche on the Alsea this year that snagged a massive 40+ salmon in the back with a giant buzzbomb, in front of about 7 others myself included. He had no control of the fish because it was snagged in the back and so it took him up and downriver for a good 20 minutes completely effing up fishing for everyone else the entire time. Finally lands it and rips the gills out. Several people told him how it was and that it was illegal but he didn't give a crap. A short time later he snags another fish with some crappy red and white spoon, gets the fish in takes it up the bank about 10 feet, drops it in the sand, looks at it for a good minute and a half, then kicks it back in the river because he decided it was too dark and just not large enough to be worth his snagging effort. That one got called in. Unfortunately, there's no man power to do anything about it though so calling in violations really doesn't do anything. They log it, and that's the end of it. Unless you happen to be witnessed by Marshall who goes out of his way to write violations for the stupidest things. That guy is like a freakin' commando.

Ugh, I would be so peepeed! Not only because he is a stupid fish-kicker, but also because he obviously had no regard for others fishing and didn't give a crap when people told him what he was doing was illegal (so he couldn't even say ignorance was his excuse). I wish there was some form of effective vigilante fish justice for people like that.

 

[HootYeah]

I was fishing the Mckenzie about 4 years ago when I saw some rangers looking under this guys boat that had just pulled out. Apparently they were spear fishing or trapping the fish somehow out of season and keeping them strung under the boat with a wire that was connected from oar lock to oar lock. I think that was the last day they saw their boat and equipment. Rather strange~ People are nuts!

 

[Hawk]

Years ago, in CA, i called DFG because people were catching several ice chests full of Striped Bass & catfish of all sizes, from the "California Aqueduct" & "Delta/Mendota canals" , San Luis O'Neill Forebay, close to Santa Nella . The limit was 5.

 

[Tinker]

The way I read the regulations, "eggregious violations" can be classified as misdemeanors. I'm not a lawyer, but it's my understanding that witnessing someone commit a misdemeanor and not reporting it can be called aiding the commission of a crime, and that person can be charged.

Like me, this is a new member of the forum who may not have thought through all possible ramification of starting this thread. The forum has lurkers...

I haven't seen a violation, but if I had and didn't report it, I sure as hell wouldn't talk about it here. Cover your nether's folks.

 

[Kellyannam]

The way I read the regulations, "eggregious violations" can be classified as misdemeanors. I'm not a lawyer, but it's my understanding that witnessing someone commit a misdemeanor and not reporting it can be called aiding the commission of a crime, and that person can be charged.

Like me, this is a new member of the forum who may not have thought through all possible ramification of starting this thread. The forum has lurkers...

I haven't seen a violation, but if I had and didn't report it, I sure as hell wouldn't talk about it here. Cover your nether's folks.

First of all, egregious is a subjective term, meaning that something I find egregious you may not find egregious. For example, I may think it is egregious for a guy to break up with my roommate via text, but you might not find it hits the point of egregiousness until he does something like spray paints "I'M DUMPING YOU &*%$#" on her pickup (for the record, I don't consider her a &*%$#).

You're right, I am a new member. That being said, I am also a law-school drop out. I completed and passed my first year. The subjects go by year, so I have completed Criminal Law and have the same amount of education when it comes to Criminal Law as any new law school grad, since it is not gone in-depth again during the rest of the process of getting your J.D. While I lack experience except for a short amount of time when I worked as a Paralegal in Criminal Defense which was quite unpleasant (hint: most people did the crime they are charged with, and it's not fun to try and get criminals off on "technicalities"), I do know a little about Criminal Law. Unless you participated in the game violation, you can not be held liable for it.

To verify this, I just called ODFW, while they say it is highly encouraged for people to report it, you have no legal duty to do so, no matter how bad the violation is.

In addition, it could be dangerous to gather the information required for reporting. If you are fishing by yourself and there is a group of 5 drunk men, some carrying side arms, who are committing violations, to go up to them and try to find out their names and/or walk over to their pickup where they might see you write down their license plate probably isn't the best idea. Some people think all fishing violations are egregious, since most give a fisher an unfair advantage over the other. If I reported every fishing violation I ever witnessed, I would spend about 33% of my time reporting violations.

 

[Tinker]

We could have done this in a PM, but you chose this course.

My sister is a seated Judge, and for 20 years before that, she was a chief assistant district attorney. She actually completed law school, earned her J.D. at Georgetown, passed the bar, and spent a career prosecuting criminal cases. Now she's a Judge.

She disagrees.

In our hunting and fishing regulations, the "egregious violations" you began this thread to discuss, are misdemeanor crimes that require a mandatory court appearance. Once the prosecutors get involved, it is at their discretion how far they want to go, not that of the ODFW, and whether or not the State Police have enough information at hand to cite you at the time they issue the primary citation does not mean that the prosecutor could not choose to do so later.

I tried to be as clear as possible that I was talking about the serious violations - the "egregious" violations - that rise to the level of a misdemeanor crime. If you now wish to change the topic from "egregious violations" to "simple violations" - as you tried to do in your last post - I'm good. We'll agree that we're only talking about those violations that carry a fine, not those that require a court appearance.

But it is the worst possible form to come back at someone who is only trying to warn the forum members to be cautious by trying to claim you absolutely know that if they witness a serious crime - an eggregious act - and did not report it before, that they're home free to talk about it here, in public. People can get into trouble.

I'm glad you're in the forums. Welcome to them. Always fun to hear fresh voices.

Remember that when you get on the Internet and participate in a discussion group, you may run into someone with more knowledge or better resources than you imagined.

 

[Kellyannam]

We could have done this in a PM, but you chose this course.

My sister is a seated Judge, and for 20 years before that, she was a chief assistant district attorney. She actually completed law school, earned her J.D. at Georgetown, passed the bar, and spent a career prosecuting criminal cases. Now she's a Judge.

She disagrees.

In our hunting and fishing regulations, the "egregious violations" you began this thread to discuss, are misdemeanor crimes that require a mandatory court appearance. Once the prosecutors get involved, it is at their discretion how far they want to go, not that of the ODFW, and whether or not the State Police have enough information at hand to cite you at the time they issue the primary citation does not mean that the prosecutor could not choose to do so later.

I tried to be as clear as possible that I was talking about the serious violations - the "egregious" violations - that rise to the level of a misdemeanor crime. If you now wish to change the topic from "egregious violations" to "simple violations" - as you tried to do in your last post - I'm good. We'll agree that we're only talking about those violations that carry a fine, not those that require a court appearance.

But it is the worst possible form to come back at someone who is only trying to warn the forum members to be cautious by trying to claim you absolutely know that if they witness a serious crime - an eggregious act - and did not report it before, that they're home free to talk about it here, in public. People can get into trouble.

I'm glad you're in the forums. Welcome to them. Always fun to hear fresh voices.

Remember that when you get on the Internet and participate in a discussion group, you may run into someone with more knowledge or better resources than you imagined.

I absolutely know we could have done this in a PM, but you did not do that. You insinuated that I didn't know F&G laws in this PUBLIC thread, so why would I not respond in the same method, instead of having others think that you may be correct in your statement, when you clearly were not?

Your sister can disagree all she wants, but she should call ODFW if she wants to know if someone does have the actual legal duty to report, because they do not. Again, egregious is a subjective term. You did not clarify in your original post what you thought egregious was, it is subjective.

PEOPLE CAN NOT GET IN TROUBLE FOR NOT REPORTING A F&G VIOLATION; THEREFORE, NO ONE HERE CAN GET IN TROUBLE FOR SAYING SUCH. Is it really that hard for you to call ODFW, or are you just going to waste time posting without actually even finding out if there is or is not a duty to report? Here is ODFW's number 503-947-6000. Are you maybe out of cell phone minutes? If so I will buy some for you to make the call. Can you not compose an email? If not, I can compose one for you and you can copy and paste it to ODFW. If you give tell me the name of your sister, I will call her chambers and ask if she really told you that people have a legal duty to report a F&G violation, because I think you must have misunderstood her in some way.

And you don't have "better resources" than me. I spoke directly with ODFW. Everyone has that resource.

"Remember that when you get on the Internet and participate in a discussion group, you may run into someone with more knowledge or better resources than you imagined."
As for that statement, if you think that I believe it's a rarity for someone to have connections to an attorney and/or judge, you are wrong. You're sister being a Judge doesn't make you "special" or unique to society. I have an Uncle who is a Judge, my Grandpa (dead now) practiced over 50 years and was nominated to apply to be a judge but he refused because he made more money in private practice. He also worked as a Prosecutor and as a Public Defender. Oh, he was also one of 7 people to START a law school in California. While it wasn't a big fancy school like McGeorge, he still started a law school, and that's no easy feat. Numerous attorneys rent office space from my family. One of my best friends is an attorney. Other people in my diverse circle of friends are attorneys. I have access to numerous attorneys who have worked with my Grandpa or did volunteer work for him, that would help me at a drop of a dime. Does that make me any more special than anyone else? No. Does that somehow make me "smarter" because I know some people who are book smart? No. Which is why I only cited my personal experience in law and didn't throw out all these connections to people in the legal field, because just people you know have knowledge in a particular area, doesn't mean that knowledge is magically transferred to your brain because you share the same genetics or have a relationship to them. Many people know someone in the legal field, so no, I don't need to "remember" that some people on the internet have better resources than me (implying that your "better resource" is your sister), because I have been aware my whole life that there are many people who have connections within the legal field. You don't need to give me that statement in a condescending manner, as if your sister being a Judge makes you more special or knowledgeable than anyone else, because it doesn't. What makes a person special is their own personal accomplishments, not "who they know" or "who they are related to".

 

[Raincatcher]

I absolutely know we could have done this in a PM, but you did not do that. You insinuated that I didn't know F&G laws in this PUBLIC thread, so why would I not respond in the same method, instead of having others think that you may be correct in your statement, when you clearly were not?

Your sister can disagree all she wants, but she should call ODFW if she wants to know if someone does have the actual legal duty to report, because they do not. Again, egregious is a subjective term. You did not clarify in your original post what you thought egregious was, it is subjective.

PEOPLE CAN NOT GET IN TROUBLE FOR NOT REPORTING A F&G VIOLATION; THEREFORE, NO ONE HERE CAN GET IN TROUBLE FOR SAYING SUCH. Is it really that hard for you to call ODFW, or are you just going to waste time posting without actually even finding out if there is or is not a duty to report? Here is ODFW's number 503-947-6000. Are you maybe out of cell phone minutes? If so I will buy some for you to make the call. Can you not compose an email? If not, I can compose one for you and you can copy and paste it to ODFW. If you give tell me the name of your sister, I will call her chambers and ask if she really told you that people have a legal duty to report a F&G violation, because I think you must have misunderstood her in some way.

And you don't have "better resources" than me. I spoke directly with ODFW. Everyone has that resource.

Ok, step back and take a deep breath. :naughty:

 

[Kellyannam]

I'm sorry. I will. It just doesn't make sense to me that someone would call me out on the public forum and imply that because of my "ignorance" of the law, I put a bunch of posters at risk of being charged with a crime, then come back and say I should have addressed my response to them in a PM. My biggest pet peeve is when people make statements without verifying their accuracy, because then the misinformation tends to spread. To be accused of doing something that absolutely annoys me to no end is well, annoying.

 

[Throbbit _Shane]

The way I read the regulations, "eggregious violations" can be classified as misdemeanors. I'm not a lawyer, but it's my understanding that witnessing someone commit a misdemeanor and not reporting it can be called aiding the commission of a crime, and that person can be charged.

Like me, this is a new member of the forum who may not have thought through all possible ramification of starting this thread. The forum has lurkers...

I haven't seen a violation, but if I had and didn't report it, I sure as hell wouldn't talk about it here. Cover your nether's folks.

I agree. With KellyAnn on here. Some times turning a blind eye is better in the end. Never know what some one will do when they find out you called the authorities on them. The river/lake/pond or what have are relatively small places and you see the same faces time and time again while fishing. a lot of people carry fire arms while fishing and may be putting back beers, not a good combination especially if they have it out for you.

Here's my story about an egregious fish game violation. Fishing the Upper Rogue River a couple years ago for springers in my buddies drift boat. We would come upon a new hole and another boat would be there and all of sudden pull their anchors and leave. One of the holes had enough room for more then one boat so we were fishing near them and we soon seen what they were up too. All three guys in the boat were just ripping the holes up with snagging gear, just repeatedly setting the hook over and over. We assumed it was some of the flossers/snaggers from the hatchery hole that bought a new boat and were doing the only thing they knew how to get a springer to the net. Well we took out at the same boat ramp they did. They asked us for a ride back up to the dam to get their trailer. I had room in my car so had no problem. I didn't realize it at the time that the guy who asked for a ride was one of the snaggers in the boat, since there were other boats at the take out. Well in the car the conversation came up about the bait of choice, and my thoughts of flossers and snaggers came out too haha not knowing he was one of them. It was pretty damn funny when my buddy told me I was talking shirt about snaggers while one was in my car.