Respect and fish

[Explorer21]

Me and a buddy hit the river yesterday looking to find a nook to come home with us to eat. After fishing a hole for about an hour and a half. Fish on! We pull out a nice 18lb nook to take home. We continue to fish hoping to find one more to end the day early. When my buddy is bleeding the fish a guy comes down to the hole we are fishing and starts fishing no more then 2ft from me. Mind you there is a good 100yards you can fish here.

I was raised the correct way here and was a bigger man and left. People dont show any respect on this river. If i see someone fishing a hole i want to fish i move on and i'll check back later. Show some respect for other fishermen.

 

[Raincatcher]

Sorry this happened to you and your buddy. There always seems to be some folks lurking about itching to get your next fish for themselves because they have no clue how to read the water to find their own hole. It's kind of like watching someone pour money into the slot machine in a casino and then pouncing on the machine when that person walks away (insert rolling eyes here). Most folks need to be educated on river etiquette. I think most folks will have similar experiences if they fish enough.

 

[OnTheFly]

Was it the Clackamas? I've had a similar experience there.

 

[OnTheDrop]

You got to get use to it on a river like that... Sad, but true.

 

[troutmasta]

The Wilson is becoming that way.
I had a Fly Fisherman (supposed to be :angel:s) literally stand it the middle of my drift that I was sharing with 2 other bobber guys and start swinging flies. Literally in the drift!
I told him that he was in our drift to which he ignored and kept fishing obviously expecting some heat. So I kept drifting my braid 3 oz bobber set up right passed/into/behind him and actully got a boober down about 2 feet from him. He coulndt effectivley cast with bobbers and floating line on all sides of him. So he just stood there and glared at us. Finaly he cast and snagged my line, which is The Line Crosser For Me! So I ripped back on my rod and gave him the "my line cost 50 bucks its 50 pound braid, yours cost 150.00 and its 30 pound" look . So he left. I saw him later catch a nook on the fly (mass repect) when He was in some water he found on his own. If only he didn't have to be a donkey before that.

On the Inverse I was at the Hospital hole yesterday and saw a drift boat with a motor shore up at Low tide on sand well below the High water mark on the oppisite bank. The only guy on that bank became Extremely hostile and rude about a 65 year old man peeing on the bank. It was "his" bank and private property.
Excuse me but the bank (below the high water mark) is everyones property and fair game. You dont own the river. Let the man pee. ( I know I sleep well after humiliting seniors:sad We all are out to have a good time. Be Human.

But CONGRATS on the fish! The W. Defeated me yesterday.

 

[ChezJfrey]

Me and a buddy hit the river yesterday looking to find a nook to come home with us to eat. After fishing a hole for about an hour and a half. Fish on! We pull out a nice 18lb nook to take home. We continue to fish hoping to find one more to end the day early. When my buddy is bleeding the fish a guy comes down to the hole we are fishing and starts fishing no more then 2ft from me. Mind you there is a good 100yards you can fish here.

I was raised the correct way here and was a bigger man and left. People dont show any respect on this river. If i see someone fishing a hole i want to fish i move on and i'll check back later. Show some respect for other fishermen.

I had this exact scene play out on the Wilson last year. I snagged up and resorted to breaking OFF. I was still kneeling in my same spot on the bank, tying up again when a guy walks up, within a yard of me and started casting. Wide open river for as far as I could see. Ridiculous.

I looked up, asked, "Seriously?" He said nothing, but I then did just as you by finishing tying up and walking away. Found another spot and within 5 minutes, hooked into a steelhead. Karma baby! Sucker!

 

[FishFinger]

Me and a buddy hit the river yesterday looking to find a nook to come home with us to eat. After fishing a hole for about an hour and a half. Fish on! We pull out a nice 18lb nook to take home. We continue to fish hoping to find one more to end the day early. When my buddy is bleeding the fish a guy comes down to the hole we are fishing and starts fishing no more then 2ft from me. Mind you there is a good 100yards you can fish here.

I was raised the correct way here and was a bigger man and left. People don't show any respect on this river. If i see someone fishing a hole i want to fish i move on and I'll check back later. Show some respect for other fishermen.

Thank for your report.

Raincatcher raised a an important point; reading the water. You and your buddy were fishing a productive "hole". It's probable the other angler also understands reading water and or knew of the location of this "hole" as well. Personally I can find no fault with the other angler who; see two people fishing a hole and when one leaves his spot on the river (for what ever reason) a vacancy on the bank has been created. The rational for fishing so close to you initially could have been dictated by how this angler "read the water" and fishes the "hole". Some people will stand in one place for hours flogging the same spot, others will move along working the the entire hole, seam, slot, tail out, ect.

I fully understand how uncomfortable it can be having a stranger move in and fish elbow to elbow with you. Decades ago I would become very anxious having anyone within 8' of my right side. I could only effectively cast my levelwind side armed, an over the head cast too often resulted in a horrible backlash.

I hope this post dosen't come across as crass, I can't help but believe the other angler saw an opening and took it, being that we all share the public bank space. I don't have enough fingers to count the times my friends and I have stepped between other shoulder to shoulder fisherman and hooked fish, despite those who have flogged the same spot for hours and pulled blanks.

Again thanks for your post. Good on ya and may you have continues success.

 

[Tinker]

The only guy on that bank became Extremely hostile and rude about a 65 year old man peeing on the bank. It was "his" bank and private property.

Excuse me but the bank (below the high water mark) is everyones property and fair game. You dont own the river. Let the man pee. ( I know I sleepwell after humiliting seniors:sad We all are out to have a good time. Be Human.

On some of the rivers - the Elk and Sixes at least - who owns the bank down to the water's edge regardless of low- or high-water marks is not settled. The AG opines that we can use the banks below the normal high water line, but his opinion and $4 will get you a cup of Coffee of the Day at Starbucks: you can still be run off as a trespasser.

I sympathize with the gentleman relieveing himself to a point - having been there myself more than a few times, but still, I wouldn't want someone peeing all over my backyard... so I'm torn between who was wrong in that instance.

When I lived back East for a short time, if you were bank fishing and someone got close enough to be visible, it was grounds for a duel. The first rude, move-in-on-top-of-me behavior I ever saw was in Arizona and later, in California. Actually had someone start to park their motorhome on a bank between our tents and our boats, and then get all aggressive when we told them to move.

What a world, what a world...

 

[troutmasta]

It was below the water line so the pee on the bank wouldnt be an iussue it would wash away.
1n 1859 when oregon declared statehood, All navigable waterways belong to the citizens of Oregon. At least according to Congress when creating requirements for statehood.

Section 2 of the Oregon Admission Act says "...and all the navigable waters of said state, shall be common highways and forever free, as well as to the inhabitants of said state as to all other citizens of the United States, without any tax, duty & impost, or toll thereof."

The problem is people made private land agreements and chose to Ignore the law.

I understand that the land is his, but we all have a right to play on the water.

but I'm not a starbucks guy so I would buy a cheeseburger with my $4.00

 

[waco]

Some people do that, step into the hole hoping YOU would step out! Sad but effective!

 

[Spydeyrch]

It was below the water line so the pee on the bank wouldnt be an iussue it would wash away.
1n 1859 when oregon declared statehood, All navigable waterways belong to the citizens of Oregon. At least according to Congress when creating requirements for statehood.

The other issue is the definition of "navigable waters". As I understand it, not all rivers are considered navigable. The Fishing regs list I think 6 rivers as navigable. I did find, however, a sweet little PDF that lists a ton of them!!

 

[troutmasta]

That is a correct,
However in 1983 there was the Farnell Report on Navigable rivers in OR. Which showed the vast underlabling of navigable waterways up
to that point and recommended that the state of OR immediatly recognize navigable water ways as just that, navigable waterways.

The man in question was peeing on the bank, he got there by boat. Traversing a waterway by boat from one point to another across boudries is navigating.
+ the river in question was listed as navigable.

Im not saying trespass. Just let the brother pee. please.

Thanks for the list Spydey!

 

[Spydeyrch]

That is a correct,
However in 1983 there was the Farnell Report on Navigable rivers in OR. Which showed the vast underlabling of navigable waterways up
to that point and recommended that the state of OR immediatly recognize navigable water ways as just that, navigable waterways.

The man in question was peeing on the bank, he got there by boat. Traversing a waterway by boat from one point to another across boudries is navigating.
+ the river in question was listed as navigable.

Im not saying trespass. Just let the brother pee. please.

Thanks for the list Spydey!

Yes, I agree, let him pee! When a man has to go ... he has to GO!

-Spydey

P.S. Interesting question & answer from the site above:

Question: Can a person float over the surface of water where the underlying lake or streambed is privately-owned?

Answer: Yes. According to Oregon court cases the waterway may be used by the public for certain purposes if it meets the state test of navigable-for-public-use. Under this public use doctrine, the public may use the waterway if it has the capacity, in terms of length, width and depth, to enable boaters to make successful progress through its waters. Under this doctrine, the public has the right to use waterways for navigation, commerce or recreation, even where the bed is privately-owned, and to make "reasonable, incidental use of the bed and banks." The courts have not yet fully defined what such "reasonable, incidental use" entails in the context of modern recreational use but the courts have determined that recreational use includes the use of small boats for pleasure and fishing, as well as swimming. The public may use adjacent land only so long as the use is necessary to the lawful use of waterway. However, it is clear that river users have no right to trespass on privately-owned uplands--that is, land above the ordinary high water mark.

 

[ChezJfrey]

Therein lies the problem. How many rivers in Oregon do you think actually fit the definition of navigable used? Quite a few. How many are on the official list? Not many.

What should have happened is that the official list should have been all-inclusive for any/all fitting the definition from early on. Instead, it was left scant and some have been added through later court action:

Chetco in 1994
John Day in 2002
Klamath in 1986
McKenzie in 1982
Rogue in 1975
Sandy in 2002

So a savvy riverfront land-owner, when presented with the 'navigable river' argument from an angler on the Clack that is armed with print, can in turn, present the scant navigable list, demonstrate that the Clackamas is not on it and promptly have the angler arrested and charged with trespassing. The angler can go to court, where they will lose because current law specifically omits the Clackamas. I believe that only on appeal, would they be able to argue whether the Clackamas would pass the navigable 'test' and should be added to the list.

Or one could simply draw up court action pro-actively seeking to add a river. Either way, it's going to cost some private individual some money (and possibly the initial jail/fine if you want to test the boundaries) for the legal gyrations necessary. Who's going to do that?

 

[halibuthitman]

There are over 10 rivers that have been ruled navigatable that are not on the list. Any river in oregon that has a county or state owned boat launch above tidewater falls under navigatable up to its first declared fork-

 

[SiletzTroutKiller]

Growing up on the Siletz it's an unwritten rule that if someone is using a spot... you move on! I'm guessing that's what it's like all over but sometimes you get that one @$$ hole guy who decides to hog hole and especially where I come from that's fighting words, but believe me I don't approve of violence at all! I've been lucky enough to have never had this problem but I have friends who have had it and usually it's a non-local intruding on locals and I'm not dogging on non-locals I just don't think they know the "house rules" for the stretch of water. But EVERYONE, locals and non-locals alike should respect others and move to the next spot. It's just a nice thing to do and I feel like most agree on that.

 

[troutmasta]

Great Conversation!

 

[Raincatcher]

Love a great exchange of information and civil opinions! eace:

 

[TimberTodd]

I grew up on the southern Oregon coast. As a kid fishing with my dad on the Sixes, Elk, and south fork of the Coquille (70s & early 80s) I saw this behavior. I didn't like it as a kid and still do not. I avoid the crowds and if a rig is stopped at a spot I will continue on, there are plenty of other holes. This maybe blasphemy but I love my wife more than fishing and want to get home to see her. Besides I have a job and if I pull a hamstring stomping on some dipstick for being a fool I'm gonna be ticked. Seriously though if you need a fish that bad to feed your family just say so and I will buy you a trunk full of groceries.

 

[troutmasta]

This maybe blasphemy but I love my wife more than fishing

Correct...blasphemy!

But I am guilty of being blasphemous myself. Heres to cool wives:thumb: