Is this the end?

madasahab
madasahab
Well, spring and fall salmon seasons were not very good on the coast...the winter steelhead season has been poor...heck, even Alaska is going south...could this be the end for the NW salmon and steelhead? Are the runs beyond the point of no return? It sure is a shame that the fish and rivers have not been managed and protected properly. I'm sure the timber companies and commercial fishermen don't give a rip, not to mention ODFW (Oregon Department Of Fishless Waters) or any other DFW. Heck, they're still selling tags and giving B.S. reports to the masses. I often wonder what it was like before clear cutting, over harvesting and incidental catches in the ocean, mass pollution and habitat destruction, dams, etc. I wish I could build a time machine and go back in time. It must have sure been nice. Oh well, the dude abides...
:(
 
T
tomriker
take up bass fishing
 
madasahab
madasahab
perhaps you are right
 
H
hcole
It seems it just fluctuates from year to year. Sure, things will never return to how it was prior to all the damage we've inflicted on the watersheds, but last year seemed to be a reasonable year for coastal steelhead and this isn't the first time the runs have sucked.
 
18406ej
18406ej
I purchased Tags last Monday night, and had two nice Steelhead Tuesday afternoon, so there are still some fish out there. Obviously not very smart fish if I was able to catch them, but fish all the same.

I amn't old enough to remember things before clear cuts, mass pollution or some of the other major mistakes that society and industry did to our land. I am old enough to remember when a river caught fire somewhere over near the East Coast, and when we would drive to the beach over the pass and see enormous patches of timber completely gone, right up to the river and stream banks. I also remember how hard it was to breathe some days because of the multitude of wigwam burners in the Valley, and days when you literally could not see to the end of the block because open grass-field burning was allowed. And also McDonald's styrene hamburger boxes (now replaced with plastic water bottles), and a poor native sitting on his horse, crying.

We can blame a lot of those past and current problems on government, but industry did its share as well. You can't tell me that the Army went to Dow Chemical and said, "Hey, we need to defoliate a few hundred thousand acres of jungle over in Vietnam (even though the Army knew that most of the Viet Cong were using tunnels), and even though we know that you will be providing a noxious chemical, we will be exposing our soldiers to it as well", without at least one Dow Chemical exec thinking, "Hey, this doesn't fit into our Mission Statement".

Society also did its part, as we allowed things to get to that nasty point because it was inconvenient to stop what we had been doing for years. So I can tell you that while it may not seem possible, we actually have done a lot of work to clean up our act, sort of, since the early 1970's.

We often travel over to Eastern Oregon, and one of the stops has a display of life on the Columbia before the dams went in. It is amazing to think of those great falls being buried by the waters. The natives and the settlers caught a ton of Salmon, but there also weren't as many people back then...Of course it would be difficult for us to live without those dams now, as the cost of electricity and the level of pollution in the Pacific Northwest would soar if we didn't have hydroelectric power.

Finally, I do not understand why none of the President's State of The Union speeches since Jimmy Carter's day has ever had any forceful challenge to the American people to focus solely on developing hydrogen-based fuels and to cut off the need for oil within a decade. We were able to meet a similar challenge and succeeded in landing a man on the Moon within that 10-year period, and all we have really obtained from that effort is Teflon and Tang. It boggles the mind to think of the massive amount of petroleum that we use each day. Look at the traffic in LA, Portland, Seattle, New York and everywhere else around the world. Think of the logistics it must take to pump, refine, transport and deliver that enormous flow, and of the heat and pollutants coming from every drop of the stuff.

I was just waiting for my dinner to cook while I wrote this, and don't really have any idea what I started out talking about. I grew up in Eugene, so that might have something to do with it...
 
madasahab
madasahab
Yeah, last year was good for sure and that is what makes you wonder what the hell is going on? I have managed to go 5 & 2 but I have had to work hard for them. There are definitely a lot of factors involved in the damage of the fish runs. I guess we all need to get involved and do what we can and hope for the best. Maybe it's not too late? Maybe we can turn things around not only for the fish but for mankind in general? I'll see you on the river...
 
hobster
hobster
I know each year can be very different, last years run on the Slaw was excellent, this year not so much. That was only last year, so its not like its a long history of bad fishing. Maybe next year will be great, the lack of rain has surely effected fishing. a lot of fish may have been hammered by sea lions while waiting for the rivers to rise. I highly doubt its the end, my only friend, the end.
Besides, all these fish are hatchery (Slaw) so even if small numbers come back to spawn they are still getting the same amount of sperm/eggs at the traps so it shouldn't effect the run in 4 years, correct?
 
J
joem
you guys are just dramatizing it. if you catch less fish then you did last year suddenly its a bad year. if you can't catch fish its a bad year. no the fish move they dont hold in the same spots every year the river changes every day, every time the river rises or falls it changes. the seals eat more than their share and are not managed to any extent. shoot them with painballs they go and hid throw bombs they go and hide. you guys talk about the siuslaw being bad this year? i have caught more winter steelhead in less trips than last year. we blindly fishied fall chinook in the bay first time ever and got 6 on 5 trips. like 5 or 6 years ago i believe was the most springers on the willimette and 3 years ago was the second highest, how is that bad? you guys can't catch them so its bad? thats not how it works. i was fishing winters last weekend didn't do any good and the last 45 minutes of light i started slammin the hole i was in make a couple casts change make a couple change make a couple change then hooked a salmon smolt then next cast set the hook on another faint bite and the head starts shaking and it comes out of the water 10 times before landing him. if you fish the same thing over and over you aint going to do very well. last year up the willimette we had almost or more than 40,000 summer steelhead, that doesn't sound bad compared to 13 thousand some years, does it? its not about how many you hook or land its about fish numbers and pressure. if a fish doesn't bite its still counted in the run you could have had 1000 fish see what you were fishing with but only 5 that you actually felt bite.
 
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troutdude
troutdude
The Spring Salmon season was poor? I guess that you must mean last Spring. Cuz, it ain't even hardly started yet this year. Unless...you're thinkin' of the late-runs of Fall Nook nates, that run in March and April.
 
C
ChezJfrey
joem said:
you guys are just dramatizing it. if you catch less fish then you did last year suddenly its a bad year. if you can't catch fish its a bad year. no the fish move they dont hold in the same spots every year the river changes every day, every time the river rises or falls it changes. the seals eat more than their share and are not managed to any extent. shoot them with painballs they go and hid throw bombs they go and hide. you guys talk about the siuslaw being bad this year? i have caught more winter steelhead in less trips than last year. we blindly fishied fall chinook in the bay first time ever and got 6 on 5 trips. like 5 or 6 years ago i believe was the most springers on the willimette and 3 years ago was the second highest, how is that bad? you guys can't catch them so its bad? thats not how it works. i was fishing winters last weekend didn't do any good and the last 45 minutes of light i started slammin the hole i was in make a couple casts change make a couple change make a couple change then hooked a salmon smolt then next cast set the hook on another faint bite and the head starts shaking and it comes out of the water 10 times before landing him. if you fish the same thing over and over you aint going to do very well. last year up the willimette we had almost or more than 40,000 summer steelhead, that doesn't sound bad compared to 13 thousand some years, does it? its not about how many you hook or land its about fish numbers and pressure. if a fish doesn't bite its still counted in the run you could have had 1000 fish see what you were fishing with but only 5 that you actually felt bite.

Yeah, I'm gonna side with joem on this one.
 
T
troutmasta
I had my best fall ever, looking forward to spring!
 
E
eugene1
I thought this last season on the coast was pretty good actually for chinook. Don't have the official numbers from the umpqua yet, but we did good on the Ump and Slaw personally last fall. You got to remember that runs are out of our hands to some extent due to what is called "ocean conditions" which includes COM catch rates.

Willy summer runs were also up last season compared to the 2011 year although Springers were down.
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/fish_counts/willamette/annual_counts_1946_2012.pdf


Best,
 
hobster
hobster
ChezJfrey said:
Yeah, I'm gonna side with joem on this one.

I'm not siding with anyone, and all i follow are steelhead numbers. Not sure about the nooks, but steelhead numbers are down on the Slaw and Alsea for sure. Not a big deal, they will go back up. You guys are acting like the numbers are not down, which they are. I'm glad you are catching steelhead, i've tagged 8 myself this winter so i'm happy.
 
madasahab
madasahab
joem said:
you guys are just dramatizing it. if you catch less fish then you did last year suddenly its a bad year. if you can't catch fish its a bad year. no the fish move they dont hold in the same spots every year the river changes every day, every time the river rises or falls it changes. the seals eat more than their share and are not managed to any extent. shoot them with painballs they go and hid throw bombs they go and hide. you guys talk about the siuslaw being bad this year? i have caught more winter steelhead in less trips than last year. we blindly fishied fall chinook in the bay first time ever and got 6 on 5 trips. like 5 or 6 years ago i believe was the most springers on the willimette and 3 years ago was the second highest, how is that bad? you guys can't catch them so its bad? thats not how it works. i was fishing winters last weekend didn't do any good and the last 45 minutes of light i started slammin the hole i was in make a couple casts change make a couple change make a couple change then hooked a salmon smolt then next cast set the hook on another faint bite and the head starts shaking and it comes out of the water 10 times before landing him. if you fish the same thing over and over you aint going to do very well. last year up the willimette we had almost or more than 40,000 summer steelhead, that doesn't sound bad compared to 13 thousand some years, does it? its not about how many you hook or land its about fish numbers and pressure. if a fish doesn't bite its still counted in the run you could have had 1000 fish see what you were fishing with but only 5 that you actually felt bite.

No, I am just concerned. I have had a fair season going 5 & 2 from the bank, but for the amount of time put in I should have had much higher numbers. I have talked to many people in boats, on the bank and guides who seem to agree. Anyway, I just hope things bounce back.
 
madasahab
madasahab
troutdude said:
The Spring Salmon season was poor? I guess that you must mean last Spring. Cuz, it ain't even hardly started yet this year. Unless...you're thinkin' of the late-runs of Fall Nook nates, that run in March and April.

Obviously I meant last spring, and yes, on the nestucca and trask fishing was not so good...
 
madasahab
madasahab
Just another thought...where were the silvers? They open it up for wild retention and they never really showed on the nestucca, tillamook rivers or siletz. Why have it open if there are no fish? Seems strange.
 
J
joem
madasahab said:
No, I am just concerned. I have had a fair season going 5 & 2 from the bank, but for the amount of time put in I should have had much higher numbers. I have talked to many people in boats, on the bank and guides who seem to agree. Anyway, I just hope things bounce back.
So you think they are down because you're not catching fish just like I said. Last year I fished for a month didn't even have a bite from a springer but my dad was catching them, I didn't start saying the runs were down even though they were I just kept at it because if there's fish I will be fishing and won't be complaining. If you think the runs are dying stop fishing then there will be no reason to complain and it won't be your fault.
 
madasahab
madasahab
joem said:
So you think they are down because you're not catching fish just like I said. Last year I fished for a month didn't even have a bite from a springer but my dad was catching them, I didn't start saying the runs were down even though they were I just kept at it because if there's fish I will be fishing and won't be complaining. If you think the runs are dying stop fishing then there will be no reason to complain and it won't be your fault.


It's obvious that you don't read well or retain much. I said I was concerned, have done ok catching and that the general consensus from boats, bankies and guides was that things were slow.

Do us a favor over here and stay in the valley with that attitude...
 
M
MattZ
Of course the numbers are down, we don't do much to try and get them going the opposite way. Sure there are a few groups trying to move and shake, but even looking at the average angler, they don;t know or care to know much about the situation, they just want to rip lips or whatever its about for them. the amount of old hooks, lures, line, bait canisters, beer cans, cups, bottles, and all the rest of the crap i find on the river is evidence enough to me to see these issues are not being taken nearly seriously enough.

Short term thinking for short term success they say.
 
madasahab
madasahab
So true.
 

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