Teaching fly fishing

[Spydeyrch]

I think that I want to start teaching fly fishing. I know I still have a lot to learn myself but I really really enjoy teaching people about fly fishing. I used to teach and guide people on trips for hiking, camping, rock climbing (both trad and sport), mountaineering, etc. I was fairly proficient at it, at least I think I was ... :think: .... hahahahaha It has been up to date the BEST employment I have ever had and most likely will ever have! I was outdoors, indoors, traveling, teaching (ages 3 - 50+), climbing, hiking, camping, english & spanish, etc. It was a dream job for when I was a climbing junkie back before getting married and having kids. Back when climbing was my passion and my drive.

Now fly fishing is my passion.

Anywho, I would like to teach people how to fly fish. Not necessarily guide them on a stream or river system. Just perhaps take them out and teach them the basics; give them ability to start on their own. EDIT: To make this part even more clear, it would not be for money. I wouldn't make an income off of it. I have 5 other people depending on me for that. I would not leave my current employment just to teach fly fishing.

But I need some ideas on what I am or might be lacking. Where I should start, how I should approach certain aspects of teaching it.

For example, I have never taken an official casting lesson ever. Should I perhaps take one or a few to make sure that I really am casting correctly and/or proficiently? Things like that. Books I should read, videos I should view, classes I should take, interviews I should review, articles I should read, places I should go, etc.

Please don't post remarks about why I shouldn't teach fly fishing. Pessimism never helped anyone. However, if you would like to give constructive criticism, that I would appreciate. If you are going to say why it is hard, that is fine, but give a solution or an idea on how to get around that difficult aspect.

Any personal experiences that you might have would be greatly appreciated. If you have taken classes, tell me what worked for you and what didn't about the instructor and his/her teaching style, information given, location, etc. If you have taught fly fishing before (and I don't mean to your sibling or dad and that was it, but to multiple people over a significant time frame) or you have a lot of experience teaching people here and there for a while, your input would be greatly appreciated.

And to anyone else and everyone else, your posts are always productive too.

Thanks guys.

Take care.

-Spydey

 

[bass]

Sounds like a great idea.

I was a professor for a while, I have taught short courses, lectured at conferences and done a lot of consulting. Here is some general advice on teaching adults, however, I have never done anything like you suggest so take the following with a grain of salt.

1. I like your idea of taking a class before teaching one. I would get recommendations on who folks think offer the best class and then see what and how they teach. I would guess that the trickiest part is trying to correct something for someone who does not think that they are doing it wrong. I would guess that developing the proper balance of tact and forcefulness is key.

2. I would not have one style of teaching. People learn in different ways. Some folks want an oral description, some want a visual. For each client figure out exactly how much or how little instruction will make them happy. Once again the key is to make the client happy and this can be a delicate balancing act.

3. If you are going to do this for money and it is on the water you may need to get a guide's license. You should check into that. Also, I would recommend incorporating the business and carrying insurance. You don't want anyone to be able to come after your personal holdings.

4. If you really want to make it a business how are you going to advertise? I would guess most fly shops already have flyfishing classes. I would suggest trying to contact places like Dick's or even Fred Meyer to see if they will let you advertise (post flyers, perhaps have an occasional in store free class, etc).

Best of luck. Based upon your posts you would seem to have the knowledge and personality to make it happen.

 

[MattZ]

You will find that it is hard to make money just teaching people to fish. Its hard enough to convince someone of the value of a guide who puts them into fish. I have guided, given single hand casting instruction, taught fly tying, and more. I started as a guide, then as required, casting instruction came into play. But if you presume to charge people for your service, you better damn well know how to cast, and know how to cast properly. You also better learn how to look at a cast and quickly ascertain what is missing.

So take a casting class from a certified instructor, I did. I am not a certified instructor, and I let everyone know I am not that. But I have a good eye and have corrected a lot of issues for people.

Know everything, from products to fly tying, to advantages of long rods vs short rods. Now how to cast a 3wt as well as a 6wt. Know the difference in leader configurations, different ways to rig a dropper, etc. Know how to cast a 9ft leader as well as a 19 ft leader. yes 19feet.

lastly, you better damn well know how to catch fish, and not just little fish on a little stream, or stocked trout in a lake. I mean you better know how to get the job done when things are not easy. That is the difference between good guides and mediocre ones.

 

[jrbecca]

Hmm.

 

[Spydeyrch]

Hmm.

What is that supposed to mean? hahahahahaha

-Spydey

 

[Casting Call]

I belive that one of the Brandon's posted a year or so ago wanting advise to be a guide. Pm him and see what he will share with you, his hardships and sucesses. gl CC

 

[Spydeyrch]

I believe that one of the Brandon's posted a year or so ago wanting advise to be a guide. Pm him and see what he will share with you, his hardships and sucesses. gl CC

I think I know which brandon you are referring too. He is a friend of mine. He was stating that he wanted to get into the guiding industry. He currently isn't a guide.

I was looking more for info about teaching fly fishing, not necessarily being a guide. I know that a lot of people associate teaching fly fishing with being a guide but I think that it can be separated.

I am looking for just input, info, suggestions, recommendations, etc., to be able to effectively teach it, and that people will want me to teach it to them. That kind of a thing.

-Spydey

 

[GungasUncle]

I think I know which brandon you are referring too. He is a friend of mine. He was stating that he wanted to get into the guiding industry. He currently isn't a guide.

I was looking more for info about teaching fly fishing, not necessarily being a guide. I know that a lot of people associate teaching fly fishing with being a guide but I think that it can be separated.

I am looking for just input, info, suggestions, recommendations, etc., to be able to effectively teach it, and that people will want me to teach it to them. That kind of a thing.

-Spydey

My advice - take a casting lesson or two and see what it takes to become a FFF (Federation of Fly Fishers) certified casting instructor. If you decide to do it as a real money making venture - the sheep skin is a good selling point, and proves that you've demonstrated yourself to be at least proficient at the craft.

For now though if you're serious about teaching - there is a fellow on iFish (and I bleev West Fly) who is a teacher and coach at Glencoe High School who is also the faculty adviser for their fly fishing club. I donated some rods to him to get started last year. They meet once a month officially - and I'm sure he could use a little extra help teaching the kids how to cast.

 

[Modest_Man]

I may be wrong but I think you need to be guide certified to teach casting on the water. I looked into spey classes through River City Fly Shop and the instructor taught on grass, because he wasn't a certified guide.

 

[halibuthitman]

those that can..do, those that can't... teach. Do you know what drift is? how to use it? whats the first thing that has to take place before a cast can begin? what causes an open loop? and how do you close it?.. do you know the answer to any of these questions? If I put 5 unmarked rods on a table with 5 unmarked reels with lines on them could you cast each rod and line and figure it out? You are not expirenced enough to teach. I do however admire your zeal, perhaps you could put together a small group who wish to learn to fish and you could teach and learn as a collective and in about 3 years you could probably be a decent instructor.

 

[halibuthitman]

I may be wrong but I think you need to be guide certified to teach casting on the water. I looked into spey classes through River City Fly Shop and the instructor taught on grass, because he wasn't a certified guide.

learning to two handed cast on the grass would be lame.

 

[jrbecca]

those that can..do, those that can't... teach. Do you know what drift is? how to fix it? whats the first thing that has to take place before a cast can begin? what causes an open loop? and how do you close it?.. do you know the answer to any of these questions? If I put 5 unmarked rods on a table with 5 unmarked reels with lines on them could you cast each rod and line and figure it out? You are not expirenced enough to teach. I do however admire your zeal, perhaps you could put together a small group who wish to learn to fish and you could teach and learn as a collective and in about 3 years you could probably be a decent instructor.

Have a bad day, HH?

 

[halibuthitman]

Have a bad day, HH?

I had a Banner day... so, is reality still not allowed on OFF? whats with the roll eyes thing?... are you one of those folks who like to tell one legged kids with an inhaler that they can in fact be an Orca trainer at sea world if they just put their mind to it? would you pay Andrew for a lesson? months ago he wrote 27 posts and that were thicker than Anna Karina trying to figure out which flyrod to buy... I didn't tell him it was a bad idea, I told him he needed to learn more... does every player on OFF have to get a trophy? can't we just be honest around here?

 

[Spydeyrch]

those that can..do, those that can't... teach.

Interesting view on it ...... :think: ... but full of bull. No real application in any aspect. I know the quote. I know's it's origins. And just cause you can quote something said in common language doesn't mean you can speak properly either.. ... just a thought Brad ....

Do you know what drift is? how to fix it?

Yes and yes. But there is a difference between knowing and application. Perhaps you should have worded your question towards the application aspect of it rather than the knowledge aspect of it.

The application of it is perhaps where I might be missing it. I don't know. I haven't ever had anyone professional critique my drift or my cast for that matter. Would you do me the honors Brad.

Whats the first thing that has to take place before a cast can begin?

Well, the rod needs to be in the caster's hand first off. And it should probably be put together too. Maybe with a reel and some line on it might help. Is that what you were looking for in an answer or did you want me to get into the technical aspect of things?

What causes an open loop? and how do you close it?

Again, do you want me to give you the simple answer (rod tip travels in an arch rather than in a straight line,typically caused by the flexation or relaxatioin of the wrist. Although one can achieve a straight line with the tip of the rod by over compensating for the movement of the wrist via a manner of different techniques) or would you like me to get into the actual physics of it? Let me know if the math is a little too advanced.

Do you know the answer to any of these questions?

I believe that I do, but again, as stated in my first post, and slightly above, I am looking for things that would be difficult, solutions to them, suggestions (stating not to do something is not a suggestion), and recommendations on how to achieve something.

If I put 5 unmarked rods on a table with 5 unmarked reels with lines on them could you cast each rod and line and figure it out?

I believe I could. I can't say that I can because I haven't ever had to really do that. It wasn't really an issue before. I stated organized with my gear and knew which line and reel went with which rod. But now that you mention it, I think I will try it. I have a number of rods and reels, different lengths, actions, wts, etc. Granted I know which goes to which. But at least I can start to figure things out based upon your oh so positive and uplifting "recommendation". I accept the challenge!

You are not experienced enough to teach.

Interesting ... based upon what premise do you state that? Or was it perhaps a mistype and you forgot to add the: "If you can't do any of the above then.........." to the beginning of your ill-founded statement? I don't think you have seen me cast, or fish, or been anywhere near where I have been fishing when I am fishing, right? And I am not saying that I am a phenomenal angler. I practice, I fish, and I enjoy it. There are a few on there that could speak as to my status of casting as being perhaps horrible, novice, mediocre, or so severely lacking that they throw up in their mouths just watching me (hahahahah :lol. I don't know. I try to ask people whom I fish with what their opinion of my abilities are, how I can expand them and progress them to be better. And so far, they have all come back with positive things to say (unless I really am truly so bad that they throw up in their mouths and don't want to tell me the truth. In which case I need to figure out what I am doing wrong. :think

So how to you make such an uneducated assumption about my casting abilities? Comparing them to yours? Granted, I am not saying that I am as profound and cosmic of an angler as you Brad .... no no no .... that would be almost on the same line as blasphemy ..... and that would take me eons to accomplish .... time which I don't have in this life time, or the next 50, to dedicate to.

But perhaps I can accomplish what I set out to do. Perhaps I have the ability within me to set a goal, dedicate myself to it, research, study, attempt, fail, attempt again, FAIL again, attempt again and succeed finally. Is that a possibility, even remotely? What do you think? Granted, my accomplishments of certifying for sucba at age 11, obtaining my private pilots licence at age 14, summitting my first 14k ft peak (Mt. Rainer) at age 15, summiting another 10 peaks (cascades and olympics) by age 17, learning a foreign language to fluency (read, write, speak, accent (I ain't no gringo!)) in 18 months (not just normal conversations but university level conversations (medical, physics, science, grammar, politics, etc), teaching that same language to a high school student to the point where she went from 0 to 1 year worth of language in 2 months and is now 100% fluent, winning an immigration case against the federal government PRO SE after only 6 months of personal research and study regarding the case issue, guiding and teaching outdoor activities such as hiking (up to 50+ miles on some trips), camping, climbing, mountaineering, etc....... perhaps none of that will come into play to help me set a goal and accomplishing it, right? Man what a drag. :wall:

Oh, and I am not looking for a "fight" to compare who has the biggest "kahonas" based upon experience and accomplishments. For all I care, you win, cause I don't care. My point is, and I state this with all due respect, don't shoot down a person's aspirations just because you passed final judgment on them and found them unworthy. Karma's a ..... oh wait you should know that one because it is used in common language. Just sayin' ......

I do however admire your zeal...

Hey, something positive came from HH!!! Thank you sir for that! I do appreciate it, I really do.

.....perhaps you could put together a small group who wish to learn to fish and you could teach and learn as a collective and in about 3 years you could probably be a decent instructor.

Oh wait ... I spoke too soon. Sorry about that Brad, I kinda jumped the gun there. I thought you were actually paying me a compliment, ya know, that rare thing that happens every once in a while.

But taking that point seriously, yes, that is actually a good idea! It would have its advantages. I hope to be able to not take as long as 3 years though! hahaha :lol:

So if I may point out, I see your points, I really do. Even through all the sarcasm, the pessimism, and the bull, I really do. And thanks for them, cause it gives me some good things to think about. Things I need to focus on, work on, look into, and resolve.

So thank you, you sir are a gentleman and a scholar. :clap:

Anyone else have something "positive" to add to the discussion? Hmmmm.........

-Spydey

P.S. Including voice inflections in text is somewhat difficult. Try and figure out where I was being cynical and where I was being honest. :think:

P.P.S. Although Brad's manner of giving advice perhaps comes across as ..... harsh and somewhat lacking in tact ...... I do respect his words and opinions. He is very very very experienced and knows what he is talking about. And sometimes the best truth is the one that stings the most and leaves a scar. I think that his form has its advantages. Somewhat like sifting the wheat from the chaff. If one were truly dedicated, no matter how harsh his comments were or seemed to be, the person's dedication would motivate them to push forward. Whereas if they became all depressed and sulking, they wouldn't achieve what they set out to do. And that would mean one less lack-luster instructor in the world, right. So then the question is, which am I? :think:

 

[Spydeyrch]

I had a Banner day... so, is reality still not allowed on OFF?

Only if it comes from you man, hahaha. Your reality is a little, hmmm, "different",

whats with the roll eyes thing?... are you one of those folks who like to tell one legged kids with an inhaler that they can in fact be an Orca trainer at sea world if they just put their mind to it?

This is actually funny!! hahahaha :lol:

Would you pay Andrew for a lesson?

I sure hope not!! I will be the first person to admit that I am not anywhere near the quality needed, currently (key word there!!!), to receive payment for teaching someone. Oh, and as MM stated, I would need a guide's license, right.

Months ago he wrote 27 posts and that were thicker than Anna Karina trying to figure out which flyrod to buy

You're right brad, I did. Thanks for bringing that up. Very valid point. :think:

... I didn't tell him it was a bad idea

Sure seemed like it to me ........ :naughty: :think:

I told him he needed to learn more...

You have a very interesting way of stating things Brad ..... very interesting .....

does every player on OFF have to get a trophy?

Very valid point. It reminds me of a quote from the movie The Incredibles:


“If everyone is super then no one is.”

― Syndrome from The Incredibles

can't we just be honest around here?

Yes, please do. But there is a very blatant difference between being honest and being cynical. I think your's borders more toward the cynical side of things. Just being honest here man.

My youngest sister out of 2 one day started drawing and painting. It was her outlet for the frustrations in her life at that age. She wanted to show our family (parents and 5 siblings) what she had taken a week to accomplish. To be honest, it was't very good. Things weren't proportionate, lines weren't straight, etc. Everyone noticed this and said that it needed some work. The older of the 2 sisters flat out said that it was the worst thing she had ever seen and that the other sister shouldn't become an artist ever. After we all looked at her in disgust, she stated that she was just being honest. She wasn't, she was being cynical.

My youngest sister dedicated herself to art, got a degree in it, and now is doing drawings for book covers, movie productions, companies, etc. One of which is Pixar ..... ever heard of them?

Here is some of her work:









The point is that even though she was told that she was horrible at it (and you haven't said I am horrible at fishing, granted.) She worked at it and is now amazingly good at it.

-Spydey

 

[Raincatcher]

From what I have heard about you and seen here on the forum, I believe you have the right combination of intellect, determination and passion to become a talented fly instructor. You have undoubtedly already done your research to find out whether or not you need a license, but you didn't really state if your intention was to become a "professional" instructor or if you wanted to take enthusiastic students under your wing and open a whole new world of fishing for them. I agree with the advice to take a few classes to see if you are up to par for either path.
Four years ago I received a 5 wt fly set-up as a birthday gift. I went out in the backyard and "practiced" for a week, then decided I totally sucked at it. I have never been fishing with it because I am clueless. I loaned it to my son when we went to Walter Wirth. A kindly elderly gentleman watched him flailing the air with it and took pity on him. He spent 45 minutes with this man and caught on well enough that he loves fly fishing now, and is actually pretty good, well, in the eyes of a mother he is pretty good.:lol:
My point is that if a person is willing to share their passion and is patient enough to share their knowledge with someone willing and able to learn, why not at least attempt to make the dream become reality? Believe me, if you are not good enough to teach, it won't take long to realize.

 

[Chromatose]

Good Luck To You in Your Endeavor.

 

[Spydeyrch]

Good Luck To You in Your Endeavor.

Loved that PM. Hilarious!! Thanks man.

-Spydey

 

[bigsteel]

good luck andrew,you definitely have the passion.....sounds like the resident OFF fishing genius doesn't think its a good idea.

 

[halibuthitman]

good luck andrew,you definitely have the passion.....sounds like the resident OFF fishing genius doesn't think its a good idea.

its a good idea.. in 3 years..