On the swing…..

[my2labs]

Ok Ok….

I've been practicing some spey casts with my single hander and while they are not as far reaching as 2 handers, I am doing pretty well with them. I've been swinging flies my last 2 trips without success. (I'm in no rush…..casting flies is so relaxing…reminds me of being a kid again on the Mad with my dad.)

My question….
When swinging, are you touching bottom? My assumption is that my goal will be to tap bottom and then manage my swing and carry the fly just above it (throughout the strike zone.) Or should I not worry about being down so low as Steelies chase the swung fly?

As a kid I used to toss weighted shooting heads after steelies. The goal then was to ride the bottom and feel for snags so that I knew where fish would hang. Then I'd target those areas with more precise casts. This method worked well but now that I am older and understand the ethics of fishing, it is too similar to "lining" or "flossing" for my liking. I want to learn how to swing it!

Any tips are welcome.

 

[JonT]

In my brief experience with the two-hander, getting deep isn't as important for summer fish as it is for winter fish, as summer fish will chase a fly with more consistency than winter fish due to water temp (they'll even hit surface skaters). The guys I fish with who have been doing it for a while say that ticking bottom in the winter is key because you want that fly to swing really close to the fish or the fish isn't going to be interested in chasing the fly unless it's an easy grab and they certainly aren't going to rise for it. As a general rule, I use 10' of t14 sink tip and a pretty short leader (4-5' fluoro) because the sink tip will have more influence over depth than any weight I've added to the fly. I know guys that are extremely specific about sink tips, even switching them out from one run to the next, but I'm not that advanced. It's also important to slow the swing as much as possible by mending continuously, which is an art in itself. I tied some real beauties that swung great to my eye, but was told that I used too much dubbing and that my flies weren't sinking fast enough or staying down, so I started tying them sparser and have had good results. I definitely lose a few more flies near bottom, but that's the game, apparently. And touching bottoms is still fun.

 

[ChezJfrey]

In my brief experience with the two-hander, getting deep isn't as important for summer fish as it is for winter fish, as summer fish will chase a fly with more consistency than winter fish due to water temp (they'll even hit surface skaters). The guys I fish with who have been doing it for a while say that ticking bottom in the winter is key because you want that fly to swing really close to the fish or the fish isn't going to be interested in chasing the fly unless it's an easy grab and they certainly aren't going to rise for it. As a general rule, I use 10' of t14 sink tip and a pretty short leader (4-5' fluoro) because the sink tip will have more influence over depth than any weight I've added to the fly. I know guys that are extremely specific about sink tips, even switching them out from one run to the next, but I'm not that advanced. It's also important to slow the swing as much as possible by mending continuously, which is an art in itself. I tied some real beauties that swung great to my eye, but was told that I used too much dubbing and that my flies weren't sinking fast enough or staying down, so I started tying them sparser and have had good results. I definitely lose a few more flies near bottom, but that's the game, apparently. And touching bottoms is still fun.

This jives with what little I know, but I read some and it matches those resources too.

I actually tried a little for winters with just a weighted fly last year, but it wasn't until I resorted to a sink tip this year that I hooked several fish now. I also used a cone weighted leech, which are pretty notorious for soaking up water, hard to cast when water-logged, but they stay down and voila, fish bites!

Summers, for me, a floating line, regular tapered leader, and a weighted or unweighted fly worked a few times.

 

[my2labs]

I started tying them sparser and have had good results.

Part 1
I've noticed as Chez says in a post that some flies are very difficult to cast using my single hander. The leach is a great example. I seem to be tossing very thin, or sparse, as you put it, flies. I recently pulled out my tying gear and need to pick up some materials but I plan on tying as well.

Part 2
"And touching bottoms is still fun"

I think its funny that some people have no idea what this means and probably just think you are a super weirdo lol!

 

[Camo]

My 2 Labs,
While reading your post I realised that it's been over thirty years since my last adventures with a fly rod as steelhead hunting has become the overwhelming choice along with a catch & kill attitude.
Even though my spin casting fishing methods bring home pounds of fish, I am constantly reminded of the ways that were taught to me over a half century ago.
Some of this may seem archaic and maybe down right laughable but noticing today's fly fishing methods, It might be time to bring back some of that ''Old Time Religion''.


This is my fly box. My streamer box is lost forever.

The hooks were used for tying ''garden hackle'' (worms and bugs found on stream side) Frowned upon by fellow fly fishers.


There was an old saying in the early sixties that went like this. ''Take a $5 dollar bill and stick it under your casting arm while fishing, that way you will keep your arm where it belongs''. These were the years when split bamboo was king, English flies were tied at the end of a 2X tapered leader, blood knotted to a tapered butt-end that was nail knotted to a double tapered or weight forward number 5 Cortland fly line, wound into a Ultla-lite Hardy reel and clamped to bamboo rod. Glass rods were all the rage. Graphite was a thing of the future.
Everyone I fished with carried a copy of ''Art Flicks Stream Side Guide'' and most of the guys wore ties and had hats with various streamers with wet flies attached. It was ''all in the presentation'' and it still is today. Presentation always trumped distance. Matching the hatch was essential and polarised glasses were a tremendous advantage over the old guys that thought it was cheating. Worms or any live bait could get one laughed off the stream. And the '' Micky Finn'' streamer wasn't accepted as a true trout fly because of the un-fair advantage. I bought Micky Finns by the dozen.


….And if my memory serves me- This was the time and era that Leonard M. Wright accused the famous Joe Brooks of fishing with Velveeta cheese during a fly fishing tournament on the Beaver Kill in New York state.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxKgM9XqjDI


I learned to fly fish from the notorious Bill Swin of southern New york. He was an excellent guide and fly fisherman. Unfortunately, Bill is lost to history.
I have fished many of the trout streams in North- east America to northern Quebec and nothing there can compare to the salmon and steelhead streams and rivers here in Oregon.

None of this answers your question, but your post brought some real good memories!

 

[my2labs]

Man....Thanks for sharing that. Really.

I have no greater memories in my life than catching a steelhead on the fly with my dad yelling behind me to keep my rod up! He was soooo excited. My older brother also threw, but he did not take to it like I did. I never even knew that my fly reel had a drag because he never pointed it out to us.

I too question the need reach out as far as I see others but I grew up fishing a small, dirty river and the tactics here are not ones that I've used before.

I've been excited to throw flies again as it feels more natural to me than using gear. I still bring 3 rods with me i go though

Thanks again Sir. Stories like yours are why we all fish I think.





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[halibuthitman]

If you want to drop winter fish on the swing with a single hander you are gonna want to stick to the traditional lighter more cast friendly flies and sink tips.

Purple egg sucking leech
Black with red or blue muddler minnows
Black or pink crystal buggers
The popsicle
Soft hackles in low clear water
Or go with lighter modern Bantams
Morish flies like the Trailer Trash have produced lots of winters for me, you can also swing globugs on a sink tip with a great deal of success, flame red has always treated me well.

 

[Yogidabear]

Are the steelhead taking the fly or is it a glorified floss ? Most if not all the ones I have seen on the swing are from the outside in. I talked with a guy who had a fly rod with a small weight and a lured type bead on the end he was making fun of bait fisherman while we was swinging a bead I guess it's ok as long as it s with a fly rod? I'm not tryING to start a war but I have a hard time believing they take it, I'm mean what kind of bug goes across the current in that matter?

 

[halibuthitman]

I guess its just another way to fish... Science states winter steelhead do not eat.. Who knows, but a swung fly is bound to trigger some kind of instinct the same as a spinner or spoon.. I can't see 75 ft away what they do, but slmost all of my fish are hooked in the right end.

 

[my2labs]

Are the steelhead taking the fly or is it a glorified floss ? Most if not all the ones I have seen on the swing are from the outside in. I talked with a guy who had a fly rod with a small weight and a lured type bead on the end he was making fun of bait fisherman while we was swinging a bead I guess it's ok as long as it s with a fly rod? I'm not tryING to start a war but I have a hard time believing they take it, I'm mean what kind of bug goes across the current in that matter?

Well as stated above....

When I was a kid I flossed with a fly rod. It is very easy to do so. However, you will see people who are flossing hook them in the "chin" often as the hook pulls toward the fish as the weighted line moves forward. Using the line/fly combos that I used to use, you could sweep an entire riffle and hook into multiple fish.

I don't see how swinging a fly as I understand it is done in the Northwest, can produce the same result. I'm sure if you throw on a 9' leader and a heavy fly with a sink tip this can be accomplished but fly "swingers" aren't aiming to do this.

Hope that helps clarify.

Good luck with the fly guys you make mad


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[ChezJfrey]

Who knows, but a swung fly is bound to trigger some kind of instinct the same as a spinner or spoon..

This was my gambit. I'm a Spoon Man. Most steelhead nail it at the start of the swing, or while hanging at the finish of the swing. That's how I figured I could make this swung-fly approach work for me.

I started by targeting the same holes I've had spoon success that I could also get the fly in the same zone. Every one I've hooked so far, has grabbed it, then ran.

The one I lost a couple weeks ago, my fly was swinging freely, no hangups, to directly below me, hanging freely, when suddenly the rod tip doubled over, hard, then immediately line started zipping from my reel as the fish tore downstream. In other words the fish hammered it while it was wafting in the current and took off like a bat out of hell.

These are pics of the the others I have hooked on the fly (remember, I've only a handful so far). Note the hook is inside-to-out on all of them, right in the corner where they obviously grabbed it, turned and ran:

 

[Yogidabear]

I guess its just another way to fish... Science states winter steelhead do not eat.. Who knows, but a swung fly is bound to trigger some kind of instinct the same as a spinner or spoon.. I can't see 75 ft away what they do, but slmost all of my fish are hooked in the right end.

I jig fish and every single time I hook a steelhead it's inside out and right through the upper part of it's mouth, never in the side and only once in the bottom jaw I always fish off the bottom at least a foot so, the fish have to come up grab the jig and head back down so the theory of the fish don't eat makes no sense to me.

 

[halibuthitman]

Well then, neither a swung fly nor a jig looks like, or swims like food, yet you state that your fish lift and move to strike, same as a swung pattern.. So i guess you have answered your own question. Steelhead take presentations for no spparent reason.. Anger or food or defense.. None of those feedings are forced,arent we all great sportsmen...

 

[Yogidabear]

Well as stated above....

When I was a kid I flossed with a fly rod. It is very easy to do so. However, you will see people who are flossing hook them in the "chin" often as the hook pulls toward the fish as the weighted line moves forward. Using the line/fly combos that I used to use, you could sweep an entire riffle and hook into multiple fish.

I don't see how swinging a fly as I understand it is done in the Northwest, can produce the same result. I'm sure if you throw on a 9' leader and a heavy fly with a sink tip this can be accomplished but fly "swingers" aren't aiming to do this.

Hope that helps clarify.

Good luck with the fly guys you make mad


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The fly guys can get as mad as they want, hooking a fish from the outside in is snagging with one exception of the hang back method where the hook is 3 inches or so away from lets say a bead using the bobber dogging method. spoons and spinners are different when they use them on the swing I have never seen one hooked from the outside in. I have nothing against fly fisherman I have a steelhead flyrod myself just never use it on the swing.

 

[Yogidabear]

Well then, neither a swung fly nor a jig looks like, or swims like food, yet you state that your fish lift and move to strike, same as a swung pattern.. So i guess you have answered your own question. Steelhead take presentations for no spparent reason.. Anger or food or defense.. None of those feedings are forced,arent we all great sportsmen...

big difference swung flies are outside in, jigs are inside out.

 

[halibuthitman]

I don't think anyones mad... Are they?

 

[halibuthitman]

Well yogi, i wont argue, plugs and jigs fished ethicly are probably the cleanest true bites there is.. Myself, i have outside hooked many fish spinner, spoon, fly, and drift fishing.. I guess what makes it dirty is what a fella decides to do with a fish hooked from the outside.. Thats where sportsmanship and ethics truelly come in.

 

[JonT]

Hahaha... when a winter steelhead grabs a swung fly it is in no way like flossing. A lot of takes you feel the fish eat but not turn and not eat the hook (not sure how it's possible), but leave the fly there and it'll come back and blast it. Then hang on.

 

[JonT]

The fly guys can get as mad as they want, hooking a fish from the outside in is snagging with one exception of the hang back method where the hook is 3 inches or so away from lets say a bead using the bobber dogging method. spoons and spinners are different when they use them on the swing I have never seen one hooked from the outside in. I have nothing against fly fisherman I have a steelhead flyrod myself just never use it on the swing.

Guess I'm confused because I've never hooked a steelhead on a swung fly, or any fly for that matter, on the outside of the mouth. The proof is in Chez's pics.

 

[my2labs]

I jig fish and every single time I hook a steelhead it's inside out and right through the upper part of it's mouth, never in the side and only once in the bottom jaw.

This is because your leader is running perpendicular to the flow of the water and a fly on the swing is running parallel to the flow. The direction of the leader dictates its placement in the mouth. The fish strike the target in both scenarios.