Horrible new John Day regulations

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chris61182
halibuthitman said:
if the river appears to be handling it acceptably.... per the study... nothing would require being done... have you floated it 16 times? I know someone who has... 10-20% great number, is that what you came up to after helping and participating in the enviromental impact study, or just cool numbers... ok, I pick 13.5-26.7% as my out of my ass science... what does everyone else think...? sheesh, read the ****ing report

No, I read the article posted by the OP, and the posts by users on here. It's not rocket science, if the river is only moderately impacted then the exact percentage reduction (as determined by the study) would be in the bottom quartile, if it's more so impacted, it would be a percentage in the middle half, and likewise for the upper quartile... it's just bracketing the solution space.

All I was saying is that something that requires an immediate 88.6% reduction is amazingly drastic, to the degree that most people would have noticed the problem a long time ago.
 
R
RunWithSasquatch
To me it has been a progressing problem, but one thing that amplifies the problem is the short boating season, so everyone knows that if they want to go, they have a small window to do so, and it brings everyone in at the same time
 
H
halibuthitman
chris61182 said:
No, I read the article posted by the OP, and the posts by users on here. It's not rocket science, if the river is only moderately impacted then the exact percentage reduction (as determined by the study) would be in the bottom quartile, if it's more so impacted, it would be a percentage in the middle half, and likewise for the upper quartile... it's just bracketing the solution space.

All I was saying is that something that requires an immediate 88.6% reduction is amazingly drastic, to the degree that most people would have noticed the problem a long time ago.
The fed has always used a no managment then drastic managment design for everything enviromental.. as per the regs and time line, if someone noticed a problem in the 80's, the fed would have studied it for all of the 90's... shelved and ignored it from 2000-2007, been sued to re-study it in around 2008, half ass through two more years of studies, run out of money,,, spin in a circle, fire the folks who did the study in the 80's.. blame G.W... and then overeact with these regs.... just spit ballin here on this though-
 
R
RunWithSasquatch
haha, to bad its true. No rhyme, no reason. I think in this case, better late then never. Personally I am excited to see the difference in person.
 
C
chris61182
RunWithSasquatch said:
To me it has been a progressing problem, but one thing that amplifies the problem is the short boating season, so everyone knows that if they want to go, they have a small window to do so, and it brings everyone in at the same time

Curious, so how does the new number of launches allowed compare to the number of launches in the 'off season'?
 
R
RunWithSasquatch
Are you asking me how many people boat after and before the 'primetime' to float? To late in the year you end up dragging your boat almost as much as floating your boat. I imagine my groups game plan, like on a few other rivers, is if you dont draw a permit, to hit it just before permits start, IE the day before, or earlier. After season is not a real viable option because of water levels. A lot of people dont like cold, most floats on the JD during 'primetime' use as a social booze cruise, so usually the numbers are not real high earlier in the year either.
 
C
chris61182
RunWithSasquatch said:
Are you asking me how many people boat after and before the 'primetime' to float? To late in the year you end up dragging your boat almost as much as floating your boat. I imagine my groups game plan, like on a few other rivers, is if you dont draw a permit, to hit it just before permits start, IE the day before, or earlier. After season is not a real viable option because of water levels. A lot of people dont like cold, most floats on the JD during 'primetime' use as a social booze cruise, so usually the numbers are not real high earlier in the year either.

I was mostly curious what the numbers were like primarily in July, but if the water gets that low then it's probably an irrelevant comparison.
 
R
RunWithSasquatch
Its for the most part, snow pack dependant. And run off will carry it through spring, early summer, but it gets boney the later you go. My friend that I boat with manages wildlife on 30,000 acres that crawls over both sides of the river, owned by Indians, above clarno. Lives in a ranch house on the property down on the river, and bids access to hunters on the property that he gives hunting permits too. Late in the year he sees people with the idea that they are going to take there drift boat through the property for hunting access, and they litterally walk beside there boat most of the way.
 
F
FISHHEADMAFIA
They did almost the same to the Rouge River . You can still float the Rouge , but it is like drawing a elk/deer tag . Its a lottery .
Its public . It needs to be open to the public .
Hire river patrols to make sure people adhere to sanitary practices .
Float the river ." Courteously "do camp checks .
Provide "positive" feedback to minor violators .
"Educate" people on resource sustainability .
That would be one prime summer job !
Where do I apply ?
Screw that ,,,,,,,,,,,, its to easy .
 
E
everett464
River Patrols = Money
Camp Checks = Money
Providing Positive Feedback (seriously?) = Money
Educating People = Money

Sorry, this comes on the heels of the outrage post about the licensing rates. I am not sure that this is the best option, but all of the things you suggest cost money that simply isn't there.
 
H
halibuthitman
FISHHEADMAFIA said:
They did almost the same to the Rouge River . You can still float the Rouge , but it is like drawing a elk/deer tag . Its a lottery .
Its public . It needs to be open to the public .
Hire river patrols to make sure people adhere to sanitary practices .
Float the river ." Courteously "do camp checks .
Provide "positive" feedback to minor violators .
"Educate" people on resource sustainability .
That would be one prime summer job !
Where do I apply ?
Screw that ,,,,,,,,,,,, its to easy .

more cops... pot head fisheries major interns with clip boards.... being asked for " feed back"...... Just put my head down on the bow of my drift boat and shoot me..
 
F
FISHHEADMAFIA
Providing Positive Feedback (seriously?) = Money

Sorry, this comes on the heels of the outrage post about the licensing rates. I am not sure that this is the best option, but all of the things you suggest cost money that simply isn't there.[/QUOTE]







Seriously ? Yes . Seriously .
I am not talking about "ticket writers" or police .
I am talking about teachers . Volunteers .
Educators simply teaching the uncouth the importance of a viable eco system .
There are plenty of eco activists that would be more than happy to tutor
the rubes that have no respect for a river system .
It can be done done if the state would recognize the power of a willing public .
Just simply educators that stop and discuss simple eco issues with people .
There are many people that would love to do just that .
I would love to do just that , but for now I just take a paper bag with me
anytime I go to the river and can ALWAYS fill it up with trash others leave behind .
I dont educate , I only hope others see my example .
Thank you .
 
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F
FISHHEADMAFIA
Just put my head down on the bow of my drift boat and shoot me..[/QUOTE]








Smash , click clock , BOOM . I brought a paper bag to clean up your brains .
And I traded your boat to a pot head for some pot and a nice clip board .
 
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V
viento
This rip-off of a great natural resource is typical of the leftist agenda.
We have a generation, now of voting age, who were indoctrinated into
extreme environmentalism as a religion, yet lack the discipline to pick
up their own trash, and are without the critical thinking skills needed to
maintain a state economy, lacking the social skills needed to raise a family,
and are first in line for tax-payer subsidized benefits, to pad the bumpy ride
once mommies purse has been drained.
Their leaders only value pensions bloated by the last working years overtime scale,
and the mongering of socialist controls, while demanding more and higher taxes to reward them as they remove our freedoms by ordinance, by regulation, by restrictions, by fees, and leave us only with memories and documentary film accounts, of what America, and Oregon, used to be, before the fall.
There is a brand new 568 bed prison, sitting empty, that the governor, county commissions, mayors, state legislators, and news media all vigorously ignore, while criminals and gangs increase their power and influence. It is the bell-weather facility in Oregon. As long as it is empty, you are hearing BS, and watching smoke and mirrors.
The rest will be history. :mad:
 
V
viento
everett464 said:
River Patrols = Money
Camp Checks = Money
Providing Positive Feedback (seriously?) = Money
Educating People = Money

Sorry, this comes on the heels of the outrage post about the licensing rates. I am not sure that this is the best option, but all of the things you suggest cost money that simply isn't there.
If they are old enough to travel to the John Day, they are too old to be educated.
The money needed for wildlife management is squandered on hordes
of control-freak bureaucrat salaries and facilities, the transit systems they are
attempting to scam us with, and government union pensions that are
totally unsustainable. Oregon is bankrupt, and retread wrecking ball Kitzhaber,
that got the ball rolling, like retread Jerry Brown to the south, will demand
taxpayers in Montana and Texas and Maine
pay for his federal bailout package, while unemployment here moves from
10% to 20%
History is a potent teacher, some things are carved in stone.
 
B
bigsteel
viento said:
If they are old enough to travel to the John Day, they are too old to be educated.
The money needed for wildlife management is squandered on hordes
of control-freak bureaucrat salaries and facilities, the transit systems they are
attempting to scam us with, and government union pensions that are
totally unsustainable. Oregon is bankrupt, and retread wrecking ball Kitzhaber,
that got the ball rolling, like retread Jerry Brown to the south, will demand
taxpayers in Montana and Texas and Maine
pay for his federal bailout package, while unemployment here moves from
10% to 20%
History is a potent teacher, some things are carved in stone.
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
 
A
Amberjack
We have a generation, now of voting age, who were indoctrinated into
extreme environmentalism as a religion, yet lack the discipline to pick
up their own trash, and are without the critical thinking skills needed to
maintain a state economy, lacking the social skills needed to raise a family,
and are first in line for tax-payer subsidized benefits, to pad the bumpy ride
once mommies purse has been drained.


You should run for office. This statement is true but sad. Single mom's 14 year old son is imitating a gang banger, and she has the balls to come out and say " My son is so cool"
She was a tenant in one of my rentals, and I stress "WAS" I cannot comment on the John Day issues, as I do not know the area. Grand Canyon did the same though.
 
E
everett464
This rip-off of a great natural resource is typical of the leftist agenda.
We have a generation, now of voting age, who were indoctrinated into
extreme environmentalism as a religion, yet lack the discipline to pick
up their own trash, and are without the critical thinking skills needed to
maintain a state economy, lacking the social skills needed to raise a family,
and are first in line for tax-payer subsidized benefits, to pad the bumpy ride
once mommies purse has been drained.

This sounds like the rant of a jaded, grumpy, and disappointing old person. Further, it is woefully off-topic, but since you bring it up...

Regardless of your fiscal political leanings, how can someone who has pledged an interest in the outdoors and fishing (I am assuming these, as a symptom of your membership to this forum) not embrace environmentalism as a central tenet to our successful future? You refer to a time "before the fall," which I can only assume refers to a time where there were significantly less people in Oregon and America, and thus more natural beauty and resources. Our resources are not infinite, but the generations who built our socio-environmental culture were brought up to believe they were. If you keep big dogs un-fettered in your back yard, you need to get out the shovel every once in a while, or no one is going to want to play horseshoes at your BBQ.

I have no-clue what the Environmental Impact Statement leading to this Major Federal Action said, or why the conclusion was reached in the way it was, but I can almost guarantee that there will be huge rewards reaped by such a measure. We have spent the last 250 years acting like drunken frat-boys, completely destroying 80% of the natural beauty in our once beautiful country (is it our destroyed natural resources you were referring to as only preserved in "memories and documentary film accounts"?), and now we need to take action to protect what is left.

I am, almost certainly, a member of the generation that you so adamantly admonish for being socially and fiscally irresponsible, and can tell you that, yes, I was indoctrinated with a tilt towards environmentalism that borders on religion. You see, the thing is, your generation (I assume you are from a different generation than my own; a slightly... older generation) helped to create a world where we are faced with a diminishing surplus of natural building materials, open spaces, and energy resources. You raped and pillaged everything that was good for our world, to sustain the gluttonous fancies of what is almost certainly the worst thing for our world. You imply that what is different is bad, and I would argue, as an heir of this failing globe that you helped create, what is different is expedient and paramount to me and my heirs.

Finally, my social skills are fine, as are my peers. What you fail to see from your couch, watching Fox-News, is a bountiful generation of optimistic, educated, motivated young-people, but we are here. We just feel differently about things than you did. There were no-purse strings that pulled me through seven years of College and Grad-School, nor were they there when I enlisted and commissioned in the Army. I am certainly not alone in these things either. I am sorry that you have become so angry about the corrective actions necessary to clean the backsplash behind your toilet, but I am going to participate in the cleanup efforts none-the-less.
 
A
Amberjack
Yes this thread has gone way off course... but... and there is the "but" word, being a true "sportsman".. things have gone way off kilter. There are ...in my opinion.. 3 types of folks who, "visit" the outdoors.

1. True sportsmen who relish the quiet and beauty of being outdoors. Being outdoors is grand, while taking a fish or the harvesting a large buck is a bonus. Respect for the outdoors, and yes cleaning up after yourself. I find most of these folks to be in "My generation"

2. Cannot coin a phrase for these folks, but they border on the lines of strange to me. Extreme environmentalists, who think the outdoors should only be looked at from a reserve, buy special shoes so not to destroy the earth below them. Get in your face because you have purchased a hunting license, drew a tag, and are harvesting game.

3. First timers, or as I call them "No Clues" Arrive to their destination in a lifted 4 wheel drive pick up, after blasting through the woods because they saw it on "Monster Truck", 8000 watt stereo pumping out "My Ho's" and copius amounts of alcohol. Falling on their asses because they are drunk, yelling obscenties at each other with no regard to who is arond them, and you wonder why we get disgruntled, sitting around a nice campfire at night telling stories of missed shots or the one that got away.

So yes I can agree with the bitterness in true sportsmen, and yes some regulation and environmental issues are warranted. You state our generation raped and pillaged the natural resources to extent of 80% is now gone? What is the basis for 80% ? Is your statement based on the fact that growth was inevitable, and yes harvesting of resources was required to substain growth of a nation?
 
C
chris61182
Amberjack said:
2. Cannot coin a phrase for these folks, but they border on the lines of strange to me. Extreme environmentalists, who think the outdoors should only be looked at from a reserve, buy special shoes so not to destroy the earth below them. Get in your face because you have purchased a hunting license, drew a tag, and are harvesting game.

I was thinking that a good way to describe them as being for abstinence only. To them sustainability can not be achieved except through complete abstinence.
 

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