Spinner/spoon question, re: steelhead

bubs · Jan 12, 2015

I posted this question in another thread but it was slightly off-topic so I'm re-posting it here:

Anybody ever have any luck casting downstream and sort of back-bouncing a spinner (or spoon) into or through a fishy looking spot, kind of like you might fish a weighted nymph? This technique is a good producer of trout for me, but I've never had any luck when I try it on steelhead.

Every now and then I find a way to position myself right upstream from a nice eddy, slot, or seam that's gotta have steelhead holding, and I think 'this is the one'....but when I bounce it back through like I do for trout, no steelhead take.

ChezJfrey · Jan 12, 2015

bubs said:
I posted this question in another thread but it was slightly off-topic so I'm re-posting it here:

Anybody ever have any luck casting downstream and sort of back-bouncing a spinner (or spoon) into or through a fishy looking spot, kind of like you might fish a weighted nymph? This technique is a good producer of trout for me, but I've never had any luck when I try it on steelhead.

Every now and then I find a way to position myself right upstream from a nice eddy, slot, or seam that's gotta have steelhead holding, and I think 'this is the one'....but when I bounce it back through like I do for trout, no steelhead take.

I don't cast downstream unless quite shallow and little enough current to sink a spoon and have it flutter gently; needs to be quite slow for that. But, when it is heading down river, just before it starts to swing, I many times 'extend' the drift down by back-pedaling my spinning reel, on reverse. If using a baitcaster, a freespool/gentle thumb would be the same.

Instead of 'bouncing' it, try keeping it just above the rocks and drift it down the current. Nailed many with a spoon on the back-pedal; spinners would work similarly as a buddy of mine has caught them using the same technique. Although bouncing off the bottom has been known to get a steelhead's attention now and then, putting it right above their eyeballs seems more often the ticket.

bubs · Jan 12, 2015

Thanks ChezJfrey, your responses and posts often make me think about my approach in a different way, and I definitely appreciate that.

Man, it's hard to break a lifetime of trout fishing instincts! I've only had big-fish success swinging spoons/spinners in the standard tumbling/drifting style that people talk about, but for some reason I still also spend a lot of time trying other techniques like the one I describe above (or, as another example, I often try swinging a spinner slowly across the surface downstream from me, like you might do with a big dry fly...I mean, it sure looks enticing). But never had luck with these and I'm starting to realize that techniques that produce a fast spinner RPM or cause the lure to be too high in water might be mostly a waste of time for steelhead.

ChezJfrey · Jan 12, 2015

bubs said:
Thanks ChezJfrey, your responses and posts often make me think about my approach in a different way, and I definitely appreciate that.

Man, it's hard to break a lifetime of trout fishing instincts! I've only had big-fish success swinging spoons/spinners in the standard tumbling/drifting style that people talk about, but for some reason I still also spend a lot of time trying other techniques like the one I describe above (or, as another example, I often try swinging a spinner slowly across the surface downstream from me, like you might do with a big dry fly...I mean, it sure looks enticing). But never had luck with these and I'm starting to realize that techniques that produce a fast spinner RPM or cause the lure to be too high in water might be mostly a waste of time for steelhead.

For a spoon, I fish it almost exactly like drifting, except it doesn't dredge the bottom, but rather just above it maybe tapping at most a couple times. Most of the time, cast slightly upstream and reel up quickly until just a small bit of slack in your line. I reel quickly because sometimes you cast on a fish and they will hit it almost immediately as it flutters downward in the water, but if that doesn't happen, you still want to be ready to lift it out of the rocks. I keep that bit of slack until I tap the bottom, which I want to occur when the terminal is roughly perpendicular to me. Then lift slightly and let it drift, ideally with a tiny bit of slack still in the line that is above the water. The spoon will be wafting very slowly in the water currents this way. When I feel it start to tug in the current, and the current is strong enough, I back-pedal down where I can barely feel it wobble...if I can feel it hit the bottom as it's going, I lift it up, or slow the back-pedal just slightly. If the current is not strong enough to carry the spoon, then just follow the spoon with the rod tip and lower it as it goes downstream. If it is still too slow as it swings and you hit, lift the rod up slightly. Just try to keep it out of the rocks and you should barely feel the lure action. The bit of slack I try to maintain while drifting is for that very slow action I was talking about. Sometimes, it's just not possible (if the current is slower or the depth is shallower) and I have to maintain some tautness, but if the current is slow, a taut line will still not impart very much action anyway.

It is killer...the last 3 years have me at 55% to 70% of my steelhead on spoons.

When you get crafty, you can learn to cast almost directly upstream into pocket water and reel/thread/waft it through the rocks all the way down, then back pedal as it passes you. Tremendous fun!

Also, a spinner just under the top water is unlikely, unless small and dark in summer and the fish is feisty. Get in their zone and you have a better chance.

Oh, and one more thing. When the spoon swings all the way in, let it hang there wiggling in the water to a count of 3, reel a couple feet very slowly, then bag it and zip it back in quickly. Many fish have hit when I reach 2 in that 3 count

ETA: I suppose I should also add that if the line is slightly slack, watch it carefully. If it stops moving with the current, or you see a tug telegraphed in the line, but don't feel anything, pull it and if the rod is loading, without hesitating, finish a complete hookset...you will either have a rock, branch, log or best case, a fish will shake back

Gonzo · Jan 13, 2015

Chez,
Thanks for the post. I'm trying to master this technique with limited success so far. I read Herzog but on the water it seems I can't do some of the things he talks about. Specifically lifting and dropping the spoon with rod angle. Most success I've had is casting upstream and fishing exactly like pencil lead/corky. Some fish, lots of lost spoons.

Couple of questions.
"Drifting"? No or minimal reeling unless it stalls in the current?
"Minimal slack" must mean you avoid line belly as much as possible?

Any more pointers would be greatly appreciated.

ChezJfrey · Jan 13, 2015

Gonzo said:
...lots of lost spoons.

Yeah, lost a bunch in the beginning. The more you fish them, you will likely develop a better 'feel' and not lose as many. Often, I can fish a single spoon for weeks without losing it. But frankly, some days, I will still go through 3 or 4 in an outing.

Gonzo said:
"Drifting"? No or minimal reeling unless it stalls in the current?

Exactly.

Gonzo said:
"Minimal slack" must mean you avoid line belly as much as possible?

Actually, I want just a little slack in the line (a slight droop in the line that is out of the water) as often and as far as I can get away with, without the spoon hitting the bottom/hanging up (this takes some practice and is part of that 'feel' I'm talking about). Basically, I don't want to feel any tension in the line or feel the spoon in my rod at all, for as long as possible (of course when it gets too far down from you, then it will lift in the water column and really start to pulsate), but still want the spoon above the bottom and not dredging the rocks. This creates a very gentle wafting action as the spoon just drifts along in the water. Trust me, the spoon is still 'wobbling', but more of a soft flutter as it goes along. I think it triggers more steelhead strikes.

fishsauce · Jan 13, 2015

bubs said:
Every now and then I find a way to position myself right upstream from a nice eddy, slot, or seam that's gotta have steelhead holding, and I think 'this is the one'....but when I bounce it back through like I do for trout, no steelhead take.[/COLOR]

Yes, I've caught many fish this way. Like Chez stated, I just thumb my casting reel and let feed a few feet of line out at a time. Pausing a bit, letting the current spin the blades a few seconds and let it out some more until I've worked the run.

rippin fish lips · Jan 13, 2015

ChezJfrey said:
For a spoon, I fish it almost exactly like drifting, except it doesn't dredge the bottom, but rather just above it maybe tapping at most a couple times. Most of the time, cast slightly upstream and reel up quickly until just a small bit of slack in your line. I reel quickly because sometimes you cast on a fish and they will hit it almost immediately as it flutters downward in the water, but if that doesn't happen, you still want to be ready to lift it out of the rocks. I keep that bit of slack until I tap the bottom, which I want to occur when the terminal is roughly perpendicular to me. Then lift slightly and let it drift, ideally with a tiny bit of slack still in the line that is above the water. The spoon will be wafting very slowly in the water currents this way. When I feel it start to tug in the current, and the current is strong enough, I back-pedal down where I can barely feel it wobble...if I can feel it hit the bottom as it's going, I lift it up, or slow the back-pedal just slightly. If the current is not strong enough to carry the spoon, then just follow the spoon with the rod tip and lower it as it goes downstream. If it is still too slow as it swings and you hit, lift the rod up slightly. Just try to keep it out of the rocks and you should barely feel the lure action. The bit of slack I try to maintain while drifting is for that very slow action I was talking about. Sometimes, it's just not possible (if the current is slower or the depth is shallower) and I have to maintain some tautness, but if the current is slow, a taut line will still not impart very much action anyway.

It is killer...the last 3 years have me at 55% to 70% of my steelhead on spoons.

When you get crafty, you can learn to cast almost directly upstream into pocket water and reel/thread/waft it through the rocks all the way down, then back pedal as it passes you. Tremendous fun!

Also, a spinner just under the top water is unlikely, unless small and dark in summer and the fish is feisty. Get in their zone and you have a better chance.

Oh, and one more thing. When the spoon swings all the way in, let it hang there wiggling in the water to a count of 3, reel a couple feet very slowly, then bag it and zip it back in quickly. Many fish have hit when I reach 2 in that 3 count

ETA: I suppose I should also add that if the line is slightly slack, watch it carefully. If it stops moving with the current, or you see a tug telegraphed in the line, but don't feel anything, pull it and if the rod is loading, without hesitating, finish a complete hookset...you will either have a rock, branch, log or best case, a fish will shake back

Chez Def hit the nail on the head here!! This is exactly how i would have explained it. Its exactly how i fish spoons. Very fun way to catch steelhead when you figure it out a bit

Its a very effective way to get a feel for structure in a hole you like. Probe the bottom and touch avery rock you see!

! important thing, if your fishing a boulder thats in the middle of the fish lane, make sure you swing your spoon ABOVE the boulder and not over it FIRST!! By swinging that spoon in front of the boulder a foot or two or three you will not spook any fish thats holding right on top of it! You will also let any fish holding on either side of the structure see the spoon as it comes swinging down towards them, The fish will hit you above the structuer (but you probably pulled him out from the side of it or right behing it! )

Spinners.... Cast up stream and real down. For winter steelhead and spinners.... Focus your time on the long deeper flats with broken up water inbetween the head of a pool and the very tail end or (tail out).

NOTE: Take this with a grain of salt or take as deep as you want because it will make a difference!!

If your not fishing boulder gaurdens/logs/branches in water/ any structer/ undercut bankes and 3-6 feet of water, your fishing hardware wrong! Steelhead generally like water thats in the 3-6 foot range with 3 1/2 - 5 feet being PRIME. CONDITIONS VERY ON HOW AND WHERE YOU FISH FOR THESE FISH WITH SPOONS/SPINNERS

rippin fish lips · Jan 13, 2015

Gonzo said:
Chez,
Thanks for the post. I'm trying to master this technique with limited success so far. I read Herzog but on the water it seems I can't do some of the things he talks about. Specifically lifting and dropping the spoon with rod angle. Most success I've had is casting upstream and fishing exactly like pencil lead/corky. Some fish, lots of lost spoons.

Couple of questions.
"Drifting"? No or minimal reeling unless it stalls in the current?
"Minimal slack" must mean you avoid line belly as much as possible?

Any more pointers would be greatly appreciated.

When your spoon is just down stream of you and fluttering every so slightly, if you make sure you are not raising your rod tip straight up and only raising it to a max of like say 2 feet above your head and no lower then your waist, youl figgure it our quick. If you have slack line (a bow in the line in the water) You can lift that rod tip as high as you need until you feel you got most of the slack out, then drop your rod tip quick to say Chest highth (it will cause a lot of slack, let that spoon DROP TO THE BOTTOM. When you know your there real in your slack until you feel tension and let the currest to the rest of the work.

The trick to behing able to raise and lower the spoon effectivly is to make sure you are following your spoon as it swings down!! This will allow the spoon to drop in the collum even more, then slightly lift up on the rod tip until you feel lots of tenstion or the spoon is spinning, then slowly drop your rod tip and it will drop again

DrTheopolis · Jan 14, 2015

rippin fish lips said:
Spinners.... Cast up stream and real down. For winter steelhead and spinners.... Focus your time on the long deeper flats with broken up water inbetween the head of a pool and the very tail end or (tail out).

I couldn't agree with this any more strongly. That's where spinners do their thing the best (in winter, anyway), and that's where most of the fish are found. Especially if the run is broken up by boulders.

Hooked Up · Jan 14, 2015

Great info everyone! I've been fishing my spoons to deep. What water do you fish different spoon types in; krocodile, cleo or pear shape?

rippin fish lips · Jan 15, 2015

Hooked Up said:
Great info everyone! I've been fishing my spoons to deep. What water do you fish different spoon types in; krocodile, cleo or pear shape?

Krocks, and tear drop style spoons i like to jig in deep water, and in the summer time i will use them for shallow riffles that are no more then 3 feet deep.

Little cleos are great spoons for the faster type of water between 3-6 feet and choppy with STRUCTURE and when you get good with them your depth range will verry a lot! Little cleo type spoons are great for swinging into undercut banks down river from you that are not easilly accessed. or could collapse from standing on them and trying to rip a spinner down along it.

You willl catch more steelhead with cloes in the 2/3 or 2/5th oz size in the winter.

minnowmagnet · Jan 15, 2015

thanks guys for all of your detailed info in response to bubs' thread. I am new to spoon fishing and had tons of questions which were answered here.
You are what make this such a cool forum!

bubs · Jan 15, 2015

You got that right minnowmagnet, I (and I'm sure a lot of other people) really appreciate how generous some of the posters were with some great info!

Hooked Up · Jan 15, 2015

What Minnow & Bubs said! Can't wait to get back on the water and try my spoons!

ChezJfrey · Jan 15, 2015

Hooked Up said:
Great info everyone! I've been fishing my spoons to deep. What water do you fish different spoon types in; krocodile, cleo or pear shape?

The neat trick with spoons is to select the weight, narrowness/profile and shape that allows it to drift just above the bottom given the current/depth of where you're fishing without doing much of anything. So a narrow and heavier spoon like a Kroc if deep/fast, a smaller/lighter 1/3 oz. Cleo in summer riffles...the majority of what I fish in winter has me using 2/3 and 2/5 oz. standard-type spoons like a Cleo.

If you pick the right shape/weight and throw it out, you can pretty much just stand there and it fishes itself

rippin fish lips · Jan 15, 2015

ChezJfrey said:
If you pick the right shape/weight and throw it out, you can pretty much just stand there and it fishes itself

Think of it like a swinging flies... You still have to mend your line when swinging a spoon, when your line is mended, let the current do the work. Basiclly.... when your on the swing let the current to the work and action of the lure. The only thing your doing is working the rod height and mending your line.

I feel a little rusty with spoons lately (been tossing spinners the last 2 years) maybe caught 5 fish on a spoon in 2 years... Yeah i know its not like me...

Maybe i can dig up some older posts from about 5 years ago when i was trying to teach CHEZ about spoon fishing.

Seems like im always looking for info off him now! lol

ChezJfrey · Jan 16, 2015

rippin fish lips said:
Maybe i can dig up some older posts from about 5 years ago when i was trying to teach CHEZ about spoon fishing.

Seems like im always looking for info off him now! lol

Ha, ha...I remember.

Seems you, the Hitman and Throbbit and NWK were my spoon inspirations and wasn't long before just about every fish pic I have shows a spoon dangling from a steelie's mouth

In contrast to you, I hardly throw spinners, even though my first landed steelhead was caught with one; spoons just 'clicked' for me. Though I do rarely throw a spinner, they work for me much the same way. I only change my approach slightly and they require a bit more of my attention, but sometimes they do the trick when a spoon won't for me, so every once in a great while, I switch it up. But doesn't seem required very often.

Though I haven't had a lot of time to hit the hotter rivers and have been relegated to the Clack, which is hit/miss these last two weeks...hard to find fish the last 2 weeks. Might also be because I've spent too much time tossing my new switch rod in hopes of getting a winter on the fly? Really should pack that away and 'get with the spoon program' again? LOL

Spinner/spoon question, re: steelhead

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