Gas with Ethanol not a good mix for Boats!

Osprey · 05-26-2008, 08:00 PM

This is a disturbing article I read in the Statesman Journal...all boat owners beware!!!
Gas, ethanol not a good mix for boats | StatesmanJournal.com | Statesman Journal

Osprey · 05-27-2008, 10:35 PM

A well know boat mechanic in Albany told me today that the alcohol mix in the pump gas is very detrimental to all engines...especially outboard motors. He said that it will degrade the rubber O-rings in the carburators, and also the fuel lines on all boat motors. And is especially bad for 2 stroke motors. Since a 2 stroke motor uses a gas and oil mixture and there is no crank case on a 2 stroke motor it is really harmful to these engines. It is a chemical that will reduce the lubricating capabilities of the oil that we mix with our gas. This will cause the engine to run hotter and will reduce the longevity of the engine greatly. I did find a gas station in Albany that has gas without ethanol for sale for boats...but it is $5.50 per gallon.

The Nothing · 05-28-2008, 12:36 AM

I'll have to admit I have mixed feelings about this topic. Some of you might remember back to the late-80s or early-90s when the E-10 first hit the market. There was a TON of talk about the ethanol killing cars left and right - eating fuel lines, etc, just as they're saying now about boats.

Some time later, a lot of these cars are still on the road and running just fine.

In my experience, yes, displacement and fuel management systems does have a lot to do with the tolerance of E-10 mixtures.

One of my other hobbies deals with 50cc 2-stroke motors. Take a guess how many people are having problems that have been diagnosed to be caused by E-10... not a one. Does that mean that we've not figured out our problems are because we haven't thought of E-10 as a cause? Or is that because we spend a fair amount of our time on reutine maintainance of our bikes? Hard to say for sure, but I'd have to attribute our maintainance to the lack of E-10 issues.

E-10, as has been said over and over, does accellerate the wear and tear on seals and other similar, easily replaced, and expendable items. Ok, fine, so you replace a few seals and hoses. These are things that are easily done, inexpensive, and should be done on a regular basis. I'm not talking every month, but every couple seasons if you do things by the book.

I have yet to see E-10 cause any problems with 2-stroke lubricants. I broke in a high performance 70cc aircooled 2-stroke on E-10. I expect some people to ask how it can compare to a boat motore, I have to ask how it doesn't. Mechanics are the same. Physics are the same. So why shouldn't the way the motor and fuel works not be the same?

Yes, you'll find some initial issues, especially with the corrosion in your tanks coming loose and flowing through your lines. Thats a maintainance issue, not a fuel issue. A thorough cleaning of your tanks can resolve both of those. A lil muriatic acid and a rinse and you should be good to go.

Yes, ethanol does burn hotter than gasoline. Pure ethanol (E-100) also has an octain raiting around 112 (a hotter burn is an attribute of higher octain rates). Does it burn so much hotter that your motor is going to over heat? I don't think so. Keep in mind most outboards are watercooled, an attribute I'm not accustomed to working with, yet even aircooled motors haven't shown overheating due to E-10.

Is E-10 foolproof, easy replacement for pure gasoline? No. At the same time, it shouldn't be used as a crutch for poor mechanics. A cooler spark plug, a carb upjet, bit of a timing advance and you should be good. Yes, I know E-10 causes problems with fiberglass, and thats not something I know how to avoid. Perhaps a good epoxy fuel tank coating, I'm not sure. What it comes down to is that E-10 doesn't deserve the bad rap the article gives it.

Osprey · 05-31-2008, 10:10 PM

As some of you know I work for Schucks Auto Parts and we got a new product designed for the new gas with ethanol for marine applications. It's called Sta-bil marine formula. You can get it at any Schuck's Auto Parts store. It's designed to stop the corrosion caused by the E-10. It also is a fuel stabilizer so the ethanol doesn't draw moisture. I don't know the exact price as we haven't got it on the shelf yet, but it will be worth what ever it costs not to have the problems that the ethanol can cause. It treats up to 80 gallons of fuel.

Troutski · 06-01-2008, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osprey

As some of you know I work for Schucks Auto Parts and we got a new product designed for the new gas with ethanol for marine applications. It's called Sta-bil marine formula. You can get it at any Schuck's Auto Parts store. It's designed to stop the corrosion caused by the E-10. It also is a fuel stabilizer so the ethanol doesn't draw moisture. I don't know the exact price as we haven't got it on the shelf yet, but it will be worth what ever it costs not to have the problems that the ethanol can cause. It treats up to 80 gallons of fuel.

Thanks Ron, I didn't think it was going to be a problem with the newer motors and gas tanks...but I was wrong. Nice to have something as a back up....

Chuck

05-26-2008, 08:00 PM	#1
Osprey Master Angler Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albany Posts: 319	Gas with Ethanol not a good mix for Boats! This is a disturbing article I read in the Statesman Journal...all boat owners beware!!! Gas, ethanol not a good mix for boats \| StatesmanJournal.com \| Statesman Journal __________________ Ron _____________________________________________ Fishin's My Thing!But racing comes in a close second!!!

05-27-2008, 10:35 PM	#2
Osprey Master Angler Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albany Posts: 319	I talked to a boat mechanic about this article today! A well know boat mechanic in Albany told me today that the alcohol mix in the pump gas is very detrimental to all engines...especially outboard motors. He said that it will degrade the rubber O-rings in the carburators, and also the fuel lines on all boat motors. And is especially bad for 2 stroke motors. Since a 2 stroke motor uses a gas and oil mixture and there is no crank case on a 2 stroke motor it is really harmful to these engines. It is a chemical that will reduce the lubricating capabilities of the oil that we mix with our gas. This will cause the engine to run hotter and will reduce the longevity of the engine greatly. I did find a gas station in Albany that has gas without ethanol for sale for boats...but it is $5.50 per gallon. __________________ Ron _____________________________________________ Fishin's My Thing!But racing comes in a close second!!!

05-28-2008, 12:36 AM	#3
The Nothing Apprentice Join Date: May 2008 Location: PDX Posts: 64	I'll have to admit I have mixed feelings about this topic. Some of you might remember back to the late-80s or early-90s when the E-10 first hit the market. There was a TON of talk about the ethanol killing cars left and right - eating fuel lines, etc, just as they're saying now about boats. Some time later, a lot of these cars are still on the road and running just fine. In my experience, yes, displacement and fuel management systems does have a lot to do with the tolerance of E-10 mixtures. One of my other hobbies deals with 50cc 2-stroke motors. Take a guess how many people are having problems that have been diagnosed to be caused by E-10... not a one. Does that mean that we've not figured out our problems are because we haven't thought of E-10 as a cause? Or is that because we spend a fair amount of our time on reutine maintainance of our bikes? Hard to say for sure, but I'd have to attribute our maintainance to the lack of E-10 issues. E-10, as has been said over and over, does accellerate the wear and tear on seals and other similar, easily replaced, and expendable items. Ok, fine, so you replace a few seals and hoses. These are things that are easily done, inexpensive, and should be done on a regular basis. I'm not talking every month, but every couple seasons if you do things by the book. I have yet to see E-10 cause any problems with 2-stroke lubricants. I broke in a high performance 70cc aircooled 2-stroke on E-10. I expect some people to ask how it can compare to a boat motore, I have to ask how it doesn't. Mechanics are the same. Physics are the same. So why shouldn't the way the motor and fuel works not be the same? Yes, you'll find some initial issues, especially with the corrosion in your tanks coming loose and flowing through your lines. Thats a maintainance issue, not a fuel issue. A thorough cleaning of your tanks can resolve both of those. A lil muriatic acid and a rinse and you should be good to go. Yes, ethanol does burn hotter than gasoline. Pure ethanol (E-100) also has an octain raiting around 112 (a hotter burn is an attribute of higher octain rates). Does it burn so much hotter that your motor is going to over heat? I don't think so. Keep in mind most outboards are watercooled, an attribute I'm not accustomed to working with, yet even aircooled motors haven't shown overheating due to E-10. Is E-10 foolproof, easy replacement for pure gasoline? No. At the same time, it shouldn't be used as a crutch for poor mechanics. A cooler spark plug, a carb upjet, bit of a timing advance and you should be good. Yes, I know E-10 causes problems with fiberglass, and thats not something I know how to avoid. Perhaps a good epoxy fuel tank coating, I'm not sure. What it comes down to is that E-10 doesn't deserve the bad rap the article gives it. __________________ ~Isaac back fishing after a 15 year hiatus

05-31-2008, 10:10 PM	#4
Osprey Master Angler Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albany Posts: 319	New product for ethanol fuel for marine applications. As some of you know I work for Schucks Auto Parts and we got a new product designed for the new gas with ethanol for marine applications. It's called Sta-bil marine formula. You can get it at any Schuck's Auto Parts store. It's designed to stop the corrosion caused by the E-10. It also is a fuel stabilizer so the ethanol doesn't draw moisture. I don't know the exact price as we haven't got it on the shelf yet, but it will be worth what ever it costs not to have the problems that the ethanol can cause. It treats up to 80 gallons of fuel. __________________ Ron _____________________________________________ Fishin's My Thing!But racing comes in a close second!!!

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